Bimota Forum Forum Index Bimota Forum
Forum for Bimota Owners and Riders
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in  

DB2/3/4 tuning.

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Bimota Forum Forum Index -> DB Series
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
vort28



Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 2194
Location: Northwest , UK

PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:28 am    Post subject: DB2/3/4 tuning. Reply with quote

Thinking of having my DB4 tuned and wondering if anyone has had any work done on the 900 motor.
Now from reading up on Ducatisti it appears that the largest benefit can be had with flowing the heads, obviously FCR's also help, but there seems to be a mix of option over the long and short inlet manifolds. Anyone had the short manifolds fitted with split FCR's ?
After head work there is obviously the old hi comp 900 pistons, these appear to require a 3 degree retard in ignition, which can be done via a new programmable ignition module, or the 944 hi comp route, which I can't seem to work out if this needs the new ignition or not.
Then there are high power coils , light flywheels, race cams , lightened/balanced cranks , etc etc.

Any info or experience of any or all of the above would be appreciated as not sure which route to take, and what achieves best bang per pound.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
deebee4



Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 266
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:56 pm    Post subject: Re: DB2/3/4 tuning. Reply with quote

vort28 wrote:
Thinking of having my DB4 tuned and wondering if anyone has had any work done on the 900 motor.
Now from reading up on Ducatisti it appears that the largest benefit can be had with flowing the heads, obviously FCR's also help, but there seems to be a mix of option over the long and short inlet manifolds. Anyone had the short manifolds fitted with split FCR's ?
After head work there is obviously the old hi comp 900 pistons, these appear to require a 3 degree retard in ignition, which can be done via a new programmable ignition module, or the 944 hi comp route, which I can't seem to work out if this needs the new ignition or not.
Then there are high power coils , light flywheels, race cams , lightened/balanced cranks , etc etc.

Any info or experience of any or all of the above would be appreciated as not sure which route to take, and what achieves best bang per pound.


OK, now you entered my street Laughing Arrow

My db4 has 41mm FCR kit with large conical K&N pod filters on the stock long manifolds (that had some work done), 944 bore with Pistal Racing hi comp pistons, rebalanced crankshaft, lightened flywheel, light clutch and cylnder heads flowed. Ignition altered with Bosch BTZ ignition boxes (instead of the Kokusans) and 1,5 mm to 2,5 mm gauge electric wiring in the ignition system wherever possible. (The thicker wiring cured erratic running above 7.000 rpm..... Cool )

Exhaust system also changed: I converted the stock shotgun pipes with resonance type muffling into a shotgun absorption muffler (hardly visible from the outside). Freed it up nicely and saved a lot of weight too. Now I'm riding a 2 into 1 system with open oval Akra titanium silencer. Weighs even less and gives more power.

All this on the stock con rods (so it's on the limit of those) and I hope I'll find a set of Carillos or Pankl rods with a reasonable price tag before the stock ones give up.....

Split 41mm FCR's on short inlet manifolds will give more torque but twist grip action will be heavier and less smooth. And the dual FCR kit is easy to install. But you'll have to get rid of the air box and make a support for the db4 fuel tank, when that's not included in the set. Also the fuel tank has a bit too little room for the throttle actuation, so you'd better try and find the special db4 tank for the FCR kit. Or heat the tank up and push in some dents to free the carb set. That's very hard, like I experienced, but with patience and prudence it's possible. Overheat and the tank is toast..... You can also look for the 40mm Mikuni TDMR set that works fine too and these can be fitted with the stock tank and airbox! The throttle cables come out underneath like the stock BDST Mikunis and they just hook up to the stock twist grip. So that's the easiest carb change.

Best gain for the buck: definately the FCR/TDMR kit and you can do a lot yourself by looking how the manifolds fit onto the inlet tracts and how the gaskets fit. On my db4 the stock engine was dreadful: gaskets sticking into the air/fuel stream and not really well positioned. And balancing plugs too long.Smoothening all that out (NOT polishing) really makes a difference. Hot cams: the 900s cams as fitted in the db4 engines are quite good, the cams from a 900ie will make things even better. I'll get the 900ie cams when I'm converting to Carillos.

Lightening the rotating mass in the engine will make it a lot more crisp. But remember: the more power you get out of the engine the more track orientated it will become. My db4 doesn't like to potter around at lower constant speeds it just gets too snatchy and nervous. Engine braking is heavy because of the lesser fywheel effect. It only wants to go go go and accellerate. But on the track that's exacly what you want and clutchless wheelies with some shaking in the front coming out or sharp turns is fun!

If you want to go for top speed get yourself a 4 valver, but a well tuned 2 valver will surprise those while exiting the turns. But all within the right perspective, you're no match for any 160+HP motorcycle.

So: first you have to be sure why you want the increase of HP. You stay on the street: go for the 944kit/FCR/TDMR combo. That will suit you nicely. Change rear sprocket for a 39Z and fit a light clutch basket & plates and you can do wheelies whenever you like.

When you want to take it to the track - and once you done that there's no way back, because you want to keep doing that - there's a lot more you can do. Take off lights, take out tool kit Laughing and take off everything that's not needed on the track to lighten up the bike. Added with lightened engine internals it'll become a blast to ride.


_________________
Track riding on a Bimota: FUN!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
vort28



Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 2194
Location: Northwest , UK

PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks deebee4.

I've read that the Duc ST2 cams are very similer to the veetwo torque ones. Have you heard of this ?
Have also read that alot of improvement can be had from head flow work, and thats were I was going to start.( Thought of buying a spare set and having a go at flowing myself, but then thought by the time I've done that might as well pay somone to do it properly.)
Just have the head ported and flowed, and then a light cltch and flywheel that will do . But whilst the engine is apart , should I do the pistons ? and then if I'm doing the pistons I might as well get the rest of the engine lightened and balanced !! These things can just snowball !!

Had my 888SP3 played with yaers ago, ended up at full 926 corse spec, cost a bloody fortune, but with these pistons you really want those cams, and they come with those valves, which means modifying the sqish etc etc.

I alraedy have the bimota sport kit on my DB4 , fcr's , tank, corse exhaust . Have lightened most things with titanium, and ditched the antera's for carbon.
Just can't help myself, need to play with bikes.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
oily



Joined: 05 Apr 2008
Posts: 4788
Location: worcestershire

PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vort28 wrote:

Just can't help myself, need to play with bikes.


Laughing
Yeah..........
I can think of worse things..........
Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
vort28



Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 2194
Location: Northwest , UK

PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
My db4 has 41mm FCR kit with large conical K&N pod filters on the stock long manifolds (that had some work done), 944 bore with Pistal Racing hi comp pistons, rebalanced crankshaft, lightened flywheel, light clutch and cylnder heads flowed.


As mine already has the db4 sport kit (fcr's/corse can/k&N /tank ),thats about the level I would be heading for although probably JE pistons. You say you think yours is on the limit of the standard rods ? are they a weak point ? I have the option of get carrillo's for 500usd, can't find them any cheaper, whats the going rate for them in Europe ? .
Do you know what sort of power/torque your DB now has ?

The other option I have is for a set of new flowed 900ie heads , but that about blows the budget .

All the write ups I have read of the DB4 state that it had the ducati injection motor but bimota then fitted carbs . I suspect this is not the case and they just used the left over carb ones , but do you know what cam's yours is fitted with ?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
deebee4



Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 266
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vort28 wrote:
Quote:
My db4 has 41mm FCR kit with large conical K&N pod filters on the stock long manifolds (that had some work done), 944 bore with Pistal Racing hi comp pistons, rebalanced crankshaft, lightened flywheel, light clutch and cylnder heads flowed.


As mine already has the db4 sport kit (fcr's/corse can/k&N /tank ),thats about the level I would be heading for although probably JE pistons. You say you think yours is on the limit of the standard rods ? are they a weak point ? I have the option of get carrillo's for 500usd, can't find them any cheaper, whats the going rate for them in Europe ? .
Do you know what sort of power/torque your DB now has ?

The other option I have is for a set of new flowed 900ie heads , but that about blows the budget .

All the write ups I have read of the DB4 state that it had the ducati injection motor but bimota then fitted carbs . I suspect this is not the case and they just used the left over carb ones , but do you know what cam's yours is fitted with ?


Hi, was kinda too busy to respond. Nothing true about Bimota buying 900ie engines, ditching the injection and fitting carbs. In fact it's the Monster 900S engine, that should have the hotter cams like on the 900ie engine.

Well, a pair of Carillo's for $ 500,00 is a total bargain, but it might as well be the price for only one. Still that price (a piece) is quite OK, do they come with the con rod bearings? Expensive over here too. Yes, when you heavily tune the engine sooner or later the stock con rods will tell you they had enough punishing. That's what my German engine builder told me. Haven't had my db4 on the dyno, well once with stock setup + dynojet stage 2 and modified exhaust system. And that was when the ignition was erratic above 7.000 rpm, but nevertheless it was quite good, have to look up the diagram.
I estimate the power output would be around 90 - 95 HP now.
944cc kit is quite an improvement torque wise, that would be the next move after porting is finished.
If you want to have 100+ HP go buy another bike or another complete 1100cc engine. But it'll never rev up as freely as a lightened 904cc (944) engine.

You should take your db4 to track once and I promise you it won't be the last time. Especially with your CF wheels it'll be a blast in the twisties and you can enjoy the people on their Ducs struggling to get that thing flipping over from one side to the other. Wink

_________________
Track riding on a Bimota: FUN!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
vort28



Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 2194
Location: Northwest , UK

PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If you want to have 100+ HP go buy another bike


Don't want to go silly with the power, would just like a bit more. Problem is, where to stop ??? and yes I have thought about a 1100 motor. But that then adds wieght, which is not what I wont.

Was due to do a belt change and fit a Kaemna lightened flywheel. Then read that high power coils were a good improvement and these seem to get good reviews form the boys in the US.
http://www.ca-cycleworks.com/exactfit-high-voltage-ignition-coils

Then thought whilst the belts are off, might as well get the heads done, which then led to pistons,rods,balancing etc etc and before I know it I'm looking at a complete race tune, which is not what I want.

Do you still have the standard cams in yours ?
Did you do it in stages ?

The rods are for the pair, but no shells.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/900ss-Carrillo-H-Beam-Rods-Rod-Kit-JE-94mm-Pistons-944c-/350415637078?pt=Motors_ATV_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item5196664a56
As I was thinking about the pistons for 299 anyway, rods would only be 500 extra .
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bidalot



Joined: 14 Feb 2012
Posts: 75
Location: Paris

PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Today I received that.



Machined Ergal drum and basket with aluminium plates by NGR-CNC (Italy of course).

I think it's a good idea to rock my old lady.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
2bims



Joined: 03 Apr 2010
Posts: 7289

PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did they come from Switzerland, land of the cheese full of Holes? Would be interested to know price and seller, My DB4 has a hell of a noisey clutch compared to the DB2, could possibly do with being lightened, makes it difficult to hear the exhaust note
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bidalot



Joined: 14 Feb 2012
Posts: 75
Location: Paris

PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

These parts are produced by NGR-CNC Italy, sold by ducati in France.

The complete kit with aluminium plates is sold 450 €.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Bimota Forum Forum Index -> DB Series All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

The Bimota Forum has no official connection to Bimota S.p.A.. We just ride or are interested in their motorcycles and support the brand. All trademarks are acknowledged