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Anyone done tuning with Bimota's P7 Weber Marelli EFI?

 
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bimotabob



Joined: 06 Jul 2013
Posts: 110
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 11:27 am    Post subject: Anyone done tuning with Bimota's P7 Weber Marelli EFI? Reply with quote

Models that used this was the Furano (what i have) the Tuatara and i think some of the YB4 models.

I have a few questions regarding the system.

EFI is over most peoples heads so info is hard to gain.

One thing i learnt recently was that the microprocessor that's inside them, the mighty MC6803U4 was first sold by Motorola as early as 1984.

Mines got a new instruction set but i have the original chip and .bin file for anyone interested.

Doubt anyone on here has experience but doesnt hurt to ask.
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laminator



Joined: 27 Oct 2007
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Location: Midlands

PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I sent my ECU off to be checked when the YB4 was having a few running issues. They wouldn't believe that it came from an '88 bike. Apparently the weber ECU wasn't really used for another few years.

The ECU came back as working. The problem turned out to be the magnetic pickups on the the cam and crank. Over time the magnets can lose strength, which affected the signal to the ECU.

The pickups are from Formula one cars of the time, I had/have a contact where these parts can be purchased from.
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bimotabob



Joined: 06 Jul 2013
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Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes i read that, Alpha-N EFI, namely the system on our bikes was in high performance cars. I tracked down the maker of the TPS which is unique to our bikes and brought one from the UK. The other sensors are probably easier to come by as temp sensors may well be used on Ducati and Motoguzzi. Crank is Yamaha. Cam looks like also Ducati and Motoguzzi.
The computer i believe may well be the same as 851 and 888 (early) Ducati.

Got me wondering about the sensors losing magnetic strength... the bike is getting old!
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who



Joined: 10 Nov 2010
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Location: Melbourne Australia

PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The silver injection box in the tail, doesn't it have a slot in card? I thought that the ducati 888, perhaps the 851 control boxes where the same? I'll have to have a look one day. Mines a tuatara, or YB6 EI 88, genesis motor.
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bimotabob



Joined: 06 Jul 2013
Posts: 110
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tuatara should be the same as mine, EPROM inside the silver aluminium box.
You can possibly still buy Ultimap chips for them that allow remapping of the fuel and some other features.

The other choice is fitting a power commander. i think you can use the MV Agusta model and it will piggybank to the existing ECU.
Probably easier to just use the existing computer as they are quite good but had no memory like the later 888 and 916 bikes with the "big brain" P8.
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who



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Factory Pro offer remapping for the Ducati. They are always up for a challenge! I was thinking ignitech for the other two i have here? Dunno, will address that problem , when it becomes a concern-reality. Cheers, Smile
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bimotabob



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh right so Ignitech i forgot about them.

Can they supply a fuel injection system tat works with the Yamaha pickup?
If so thats worth considerations.

I run there STMP system on my Bimota already, It controls my EXUP valve.
Works mint. Also connected it to my Weber Marelli fuel injection so its load sensitive.
No problem dealing with those guys ay.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So Bob, are you prepared to put up the reflash of the micro processor. also ....the original flash, and explain what you have done and why the new one is an improvement??

Otherwise this post is pointless. I quote you:

"Mines got a new instruction set but i have the original chip and .bin file for anyone interested.

Doubt anyone on here has experience but doesn't hurt to ask."

So what is the point of the post?

Cheers, Ralph
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bimotabob



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The point is asking for information for the fuel injection, programming and re-mapping of these low volume bikes because the level of technical details available is underwhelming.

We as like minded individuals need to band together and pool our knowledge as there's hardly anyone out there to even pay to do this stuff.

The topic was after all has anyone got any experience tuning these bikes.

I don't think asking for help or information is pointless.
There are people out there with lots of intel on the subject (have been made aware of this) so thought i'd ask just in case someone is on this site.

This stuff is highly technical Ralph, i don't believe anyone in the city i live in bike shop wise would be able to diagnose or even tune one of these.

My computer is not reflashed it has been reprogrammed - as i said i have the original .bin file that Bimota sent out on the bikes.
This original file is useful for a skilled programmer to work out the code so the fuel and ignition tables can be manipulated.
This information is not in the public arena even though the technology dates from the 80's.
For example if i knew the addressing of the tables then with some mathematical calculations i could probably tune it and then provide the file to others who perhaps fit a wiseco 1040cc kit who then burn the new code to a cheaply purchased EPROM chip and their bike is fueled for the application. People do this with cars, a friend of mine does this whole service for $100 fitted for basic mods like better intake and exhaust.

It sounds like factory pro must know this information as they offer tuning.
It costs hundreds of dollars to properly tune an engine on a dyno so I'm talking about a cost saving alternative for people who may not even live near a shop who can do the work.
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bimotabob



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also have several documents that detail the workings of the injection, the testing of components and the set up of the TPS which is the heart of the input sensors and is very important to get right.

Happy to provide this info, the TPS set up is gold to Tuatara, YB4IE or Furano owners.

Has anyone else got any documents on the sunject they want to share?
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bimotabob



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This a Motoguzzi wiring diagram which has been made by an individual, at some point i will use this and make a special P7 Bimota EFI only wiring diagram as its my line of work.

However for the time being the weber marelli information is correct regarding the details which is awesome as Bimota doesnt seem to have offered one to us!

[/img]
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bimotabob



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hers a gem for Furano owners as this is the original spec sheet from Ohlins,
another piece of intel that Bimota never provided to the owners.
Note the YB8 Dieci model name, oops but don't they have another brand forks ha ha. Got it half right


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bimotabob



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So pc punters how does one attach .pdf files?
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who



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haven't tried, but you can just jpg the image and put each page onto Photobucket. I don't think these sites provide the resources for books, I believe there are other sites, but few of them are free? Check with admin, they should be able to provide some answers? A lot of sites have manual down load pages. No idea how it works?

So why Bob did you re-flash, and what are the gains?

Thanks for the info that has been provided to date

Cheers, Ralph.
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bimotabob



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just want to update the tuning information as have made a breakthrough this weekend.

I have some documents detailing the set up of the:

1) TPS
2)Idle speed
3)CO testing
4)Idle fuel screw (Pot on ECU)
5)Throttle body balancing

Many years ago when i brought the Furano it would start and run OK.
Black smoke if you revved the throttle or rode and opened the accelerator.
Done around 12km/l.

I brought some tuning gear and modified the map (bit more fuel part throttle) after adjusting the TPS and all the set up as above minus CO work with the fuel screw.
The bike started and run a bit better and no smoke but has always been flat, plenty of low end torque but doesn't seem to build up power as the RPM went up like it should.
Done around 18km/l.

Many years later and i decide to re-investigate the TPS set-up, turns out the data i was given and infact the data pretty much everyone would accept as a base start point can't be achieved.

Normally its 150mv throttles closed - as in idle stops backed off etc.
This is the ideal starting point as mine measured 600mv at working idle i figured it was way out.

Turns out you cant get under 500mv no matter what you do.
Found my spare sensor, checked off the bike and same thing.
I turned the sucker on the bike against the slots so much it opened the throttle - oops, ok too much.

So have set mine by pushing the TPS hard against the throttle butterflies so it would hold the throttle but since i wind up the idle stops it gets basically as min voltage as i can do.

Be a good idea to oberve this in another bike so if anyone can check and say hey mines the same then we know for certain these have a special setting that isnt in the public arena, i have looked believe me.

With mine now set to 500mv - was bit over 600mv remember, it feels like the whole bike has come to life.
It roars well before 6000rpm and i couldn't believe how fast it is now.
Pity its never been dynoed.
Goes like a cut cat and no rattling (detonation) from low throttle opening off the line like it always has done.
Timing obviously was different as the TPS voltage bring on the load maps and of course the fuel maps is out of whack with the engine speed also.

500mv TPS output at idle though of course depends on what idle you guys run, just back it off as much as possible. i think my idles around 1400rpm but turn headlights on and the alternator load pulls it down 200rpm.
I'm running the standard fuel/spark maps with standard sensors, have only added +2.3% enrichment over the total map just as a starting point.
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