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tenchu2x
Joined: 09 Sep 2015 Posts: 107
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Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 9:24 am Post subject: Steam from the right side DB5 |
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Hi guys,
i noticed today that my db5 blows out steam from the right side permanently. it is rather lightly and it is just slightly white, not blue.
i took a video of it, it is hard to capture. please be sure that the settings are on 720p , so you can see it and watch the whole video.
https://youtu.be/F-yAsZGBJTU
what is that? is it normal?
Oil? fuel? there are no oil leaks visible where anything is dripping down or something
it is not condens water, since it stays even after riding it for more than half an hour. |
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SpikeC
Joined: 20 Aug 2013 Posts: 450 Location: Portland, Oregon
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Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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Sounds like crankcase breather. Where is the breather routed? _________________ Spike C.
Portland, Oregon, USA
2008 Bimota DB5R
1965 Triumph T100SC |
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tenchu2x
Joined: 09 Sep 2015 Posts: 107
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Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 9:48 am Post subject: |
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SpikeC wrote: |
Sounds like crankcase breather. Where is the breather routed? |
Hey,
don't you have a db5 too? the hose from the breather is going up , under the tank. there is a plastic container that leads to the airbox. that container is beneath the airbox.
if that steam would come from that container i guess it should come from the left side, since the hose is entering the container on the left side of the bike . but it is only steaming from the right side. as you see in the video it is rather subtle.
the steam gets more when the bike is warm. i covered both sides with chalk spray now to spot any oil leaks but there is nothing! no oil leaking. its just that steam.
i can rule out condensating water after a ride of more than 40 minutes.
i f this would just be blow-by caused by a leak somewhere in the breathing cycle , i guess everything is fine (aside from the environment) but that has to come somewhere? fuel gas? |
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2bims
Joined: 03 Apr 2010 Posts: 7289
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Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 10:31 am Post subject: |
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I'd be guessing Fumes from the rear crankcase breather pipe also....it is just a "push-fit" into the airbox so isnt airtight as such so could be coming from there....if you removed the petrol tank and took off the airbox lid you may well find a lot of oil deposits in the airbox that would have come from the crankcase breather...
I've seen the same "steam" from other crankcase breathers...usually its a sign that the oil level is low and thus the oil is getting too hot as there is insufficient in the system to keep it cool....evidently running it for a while with the bike standing doesnt help as the oil cooler needs air passing over it to help in the cooling process...i.e. it works better if the bike is being ridden.
How old is the Oil? How long has the bike been standing? I'd suggest changing the oil out and filter also...old or burnt oil will produce the fumes quicker than fresh oil...... |
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tenchu2x
Joined: 09 Sep 2015 Posts: 107
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Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 10:45 am Post subject: |
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2bims wrote: |
I'd be guessing Fumes from the rear crankcase breather pipe also....it is just a "push-fit" into the airbox so isnt airtight as such so could be coming from there....if you removed the petrol tank and took off the airbox lid you may well find a lot of oil deposits in the airbox that would have come from the crankcase breather...
I've seen the same "steam" from other crankcase breathers...usually its a sign that the oil level is low and thus the oil is getting too hot as there is insufficient in the system to keep it cool....evidently running it for a while with the bike standing doesnt help as the oil cooler needs air passing over it to help in the cooling process...i.e. it works better if the bike is being ridden.
How old is the Oil? How long has the bike been standing? I'd suggest changing the oil out and filter also...old or burnt oil will produce the fumes quicker than fresh oil...... |
what makes me doubt that theory is that the smoke is coming clearly from the right side of the bike. but the breather hose is entering the container on the far left side of the bike.
But.... on the left side of the bike i can see nothing, no smoke. where the hose enters the container, there is no smoke.
i kept the oil on the minimum level when warm , maybe i should top it up? |
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2bims
Joined: 03 Apr 2010 Posts: 7289
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Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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Generally you should be checking the oil when its cold, after its been run the previous day for example and been allowed to cool and drain down fully...as there are many oil lines integral with the head feeding the cams, valves etc...and be sure the bike is level and upright......Too low an oil level is as bad as too high an oil level....I tend to keep it up to the max line when cold and bike is on its rear stand....low oil can cause it to get too hot and hence fumes....Too high causes oil to be pulled up via the pistons and would be evident from the exhaust being burnt off in the cylinders......perhaps yours is too low? How many miles has the exisiting oil been used for? |
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tenchu2x
Joined: 09 Sep 2015 Posts: 107
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Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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the oil iss is not long used. i guess i will fill it up then to between min and max.
still strange that the fumes are coming from the right side though. |
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2bims
Joined: 03 Apr 2010 Posts: 7289
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Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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The only other thing you could check is to remove the Cambelt covers....which can be done in situ....take off the horizontal one and then the vertical one.....after pulling the plug wires off then reconnect and run......as there did seem to be a waft of air coming from behind the cambelt covers.....there is an oil seal behind the top cam pulley on the vertical cylinder |
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tenchu2x
Joined: 09 Sep 2015 Posts: 107
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Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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2bims wrote: |
The only other thing you could check is to remove the Cambelt covers....which can be done in situ....take off the horizontal one and then the vertical one.....after pulling the plug wires off then reconnect and run......as there did seem to be a waft of air coming from behind the cambelt covers.....there is an oil seal behind the top cam pulley on the vertical cylinder |
yeah i also guess it is coming from there. what do you mean with "situ"? |
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2bims
Joined: 03 Apr 2010 Posts: 7289
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Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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"In Situ" means you dont have to drop the engine to remove the cambelts.......only pull the plug leads off and you can remove the covers...it will give you a chance to see the state of the cam belts also....how old are they? When were they last changed? when they were the tensioners last checked? |
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SpikeC
Joined: 20 Aug 2013 Posts: 450 Location: Portland, Oregon
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Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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When I had my air box off a while ago I also had the breather box off and I found that the rear cylinder had melted a hole in it. It was on the right side.
This also allowed unfiltered air to be introduced into the engine. You might want to check that.
It would allow blow by to exit on the right side. _________________ Spike C.
Portland, Oregon, USA
2008 Bimota DB5R
1965 Triumph T100SC |
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tenchu2x
Joined: 09 Sep 2015 Posts: 107
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Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:54 am Post subject: |
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SpikeC wrote: |
When I had my air box off a while ago I also had the breather box off and I found that the rear cylinder had melted a hole in it. It was on the right side.
This also allowed unfiltered air to be introduced into the engine. You might want to check that.
It would allow blow by to exit on the right side. |
Hey Spike,
you might have a good lead here, i had a quick look in that area today and i can see that the rips of the cylinder actually have left marks on that container, which i guess happened due to the heat and the plastic melting. i am not sure though, if that actually led to melting a hole in it. that i cannot see without taking everything of.
i think i may leave it that way for the time being. i mean some blow by going out in the air does not harm the bike, right ? and the environment will cope tith it too... |
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SpikeC
Joined: 20 Aug 2013 Posts: 450 Location: Portland, Oregon
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Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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I would not be concerned about the blow by, but I would be about the fact that it allows the motor to bypass the air filter. How much would depend on how big the hole was. _________________ Spike C.
Portland, Oregon, USA
2008 Bimota DB5R
1965 Triumph T100SC |
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tenchu2x
Joined: 09 Sep 2015 Posts: 107
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Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 6:02 am Post subject: |
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SpikeC wrote: |
I would not be concerned about the blow by, but I would be about the fact that it allows the motor to bypass the air filter. How much would depend on how big the hole was. |
Why would it allow that ? The air still has to pass the air filter ?
My understanding is that from the crankshaft container the air goes further up to the air box passing the air filter . So when air from outside gets into the crankshaft container it still has to pass the air filter, right ?
Or do you mean that the air that goes through the hole in the container can travel back to the crankcase breather ? But also on that case , into the crankcase breather a one way filter ? So oil and air can go out and up but not back in ?
How did you fix it ? |
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2bims
Joined: 03 Apr 2010 Posts: 7289
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Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 9:36 am Post subject: |
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Generally the crankcase "breather" tube is just that....a plain open empty tube that flows into the airbox.....the filter in the airbox is at the far other side under the front of the petrol tank...so yes....any "sucking" from the fuel/air intakes would be breathing in unfiltered air...the crankcase breather does have a baffle plate on it...but thats fitted at the base of the tube on the crankcase.
I've looked at my DB5 and yes....theres a small container for the tube just before the airbox, black plastic...and yes...its very close to the cooling fins of the rear cylinder.....the rear cylinder gets hotter than the front on all Ducati engines.....and maybe has melted the container if the engine has been left running with the bike standing...as theres no air flow to cool it.
2 pack epoxy bond and insulating ally tape would fix it if you have a hole in it.
I'd suggest removing the tank to see.....remove the front screw of the seat, and the one underneath between the two exhaust pipes...then remove the front tank fixing and remove the tank....gives you access to the container and then I'd remove the airbox tank cover, 4 or 6 small screws....then check the contents of the airbox...and clean the airfilter...its a fairly easy job...that is if the tank quick release fuel couplings are still OK
Do you have the workshop manual for the tank removal??? |
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