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redtop
Joined: 04 Mar 2011
Posts: 13
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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 Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:30 pm Post subject: Introduction |
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Hallo!
New to the forum. I wonder why I havn't found my way here earlier? 
My bike is Bimota DB2 nr 300. The DB2 was never sold in Sweden, and my bike has found it's way here via England. It really needed some TLC when I bought it, and whlire restoring it I kept a blog at: http://bimota-db2.blogspot.com/
Current status of the bike:
Carillo rods, 944cm3 HC-kit, Kämna Al-flywheel, Ignitech programable ignition, Keihin FCR41 carbs, PVM mag wheels. Cams dialed for torque, dynoed to 80hp/90Nm in a rather conservative dyno.
A Ducati 1000DS -08 engine with 1400 km is waiting to transplanted in. So is also an Ohlins fork. Transplant planned to start in a few weeks.
The bike is used mostly at trackdays, about 10-12 a year.
Some pics:
(red: Keihins, blue: Stock carbs totally wrong jetted)
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RedTop
DB2 #300 |
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Pompey
Joined: 31 Jul 2008
Posts: 2311
Location: Marlborough
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| Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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 Welcome on board Mr Red top! Looking good, love it when the bikes still get nailed on the track and not put in mothballs. I hope you become a regular on the site, I am in Sweden later in the year I might try to have a look at one of those trackdays!
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Pomps
Bimota's Db2, Db5 ,Ducati's 851' 92, 888' 93, Honda blade' 93, Triumph speed triple' 07, kawasaki zxr 750 k1 |
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Evilchicken0
Joined: 12 May 2010
Posts: 2996
Location: London
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| Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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Hi there
 pretty bike
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Don't read everything you believe |
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laminator
Joined: 27 Oct 2007
Posts: 320
Location: Midlands
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| Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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Hi,
Nice looking bike and good to see it being used.
Great photo's, especially the top one. |
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GeeKay
Joined: 29 May 2009
Posts: 1767
Location: West Yorkshire
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| Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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Welcome to the forum 
Great bike and pictures - thanks for sharing |
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Pompey
Joined: 31 Jul 2008
Posts: 2311
Location: Marlborough
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| Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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Hey Lars, was that an Italian red bike only track day?
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Pomps
Bimota's Db2, Db5 ,Ducati's 851' 92, 888' 93, Honda blade' 93, Triumph speed triple' 07, kawasaki zxr 750 k1 |
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deebee4
Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 266
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 11:47 am Post subject: |
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Hi Lars & welcome to this db scene. Nice bike. Nice tuning parts inside the engine.
But I'm kinda disappointed about the moderate power output from your 944 kitted, Carillo & 41mm Kehins etc engine, even on a conservative dyno. Are you still using your stock airbox? If so do take it away and fit large K&N kod filters. Do you still relie on that stock vacuum operated fuel pump? If yes get an electric fuel pump, that vacuum pump is just about OK for road use but for track ridng it's not. Do you have a tall gearing, like 15/38 or less?
My db4 in its previous 904cc layout with dynojetted stock Mikunis & K&N pod filters and stock exhaust already had an output of just over 82HP.
Your tuned engine (provided it has the HC pistons instead of the ST3 pistons) should have an output of over 90HP.
So I think a lot can be gained just by looking at your carb settings, cilinder head flow etc or just the breathing.
With that engine it should give any 2 valve Ducati a hard time keeping up in turns and out of the turns. Even 748's will have to work really hard.
Yes, the 1000DS engine would be nice, but I definately would take a look at the breating of your bike.
That 944cc 41mmFCR engine should not really create a desire for a 1000DS power plant. Just that sound of the FCR's pumping in that fuel mixture under load is exiting.
If you want to I can send you some data of my FCR jet settings etc.
Enjoy your trackriding. |
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redtop
Joined: 04 Mar 2011
Posts: 13
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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| Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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Track day with the Swedish Ducati Club. All bikes with Ducati engines are welcome, so DBs, Cagiva Elephant and some MotoMorini are OK.
All Italian: Yes!
All red: Almost! 
| Pompey wrote: |
| Hey Lars, was that an Italian red bike only track day? |
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RedTop
DB2 #300 |
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redtop
Joined: 04 Mar 2011
Posts: 13
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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| Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you for your welcoming!
The air box is gone. I use two home made cylinder shaped foam filters. My bike has an electric fuel pump. I thought that was a stock pump, since the electric harness seems to be made for an electric pump?
I jetted the Keihins by careful internet research and verified it using an Innovate Lambda logger. (I welded on mountings for Lambda sonds on my exhaust.) I thought it was good enough for the time beeing, and to be honest I havn't taken the tame to optimise the jetting. I ended up with the following. It would be interesting to compare with your jetting on the DB4.
Needle: OCEMT, middle slot
Main: 160
Slow: 60
Main air: 200
Valve seat: 2.0
Anyway, here's a chart from a road log run with the Innovate logger:
I really don't know much about the pistons, since they where already in the engine when I bought the bike. There are some pics on my blog. Maybe someone can identify them?
Gearing is now 14/40 giving me a top speed of around 205-210km/h verified by GPS on former Swedish GP Track Anderstorp Raceway.
Out of corners is definitely my best. I often give trouble to even 999/1098, but I will of course be outrun on the straight. Stock 748s are definitely having problems even on the straight (if it's not to long). I set my inlet centerline to 107degrees while dialing the cams, following Brad Blacks (Moto One, Australia) ideas. That will give me good torque at low rpm paying the price of lower top rpm power, but at least with my style of driving, I think that will give me the lowest lap times, as I get very good ridability. It also spares the engine as I never get to the really high rpms.
| deebee4 wrote: |
Hi Lars & welcome to this db scene. Nice bike. Nice tuning parts inside the engine.
But I'm kinda disappointed about the moderate power output from your 944 kitted, Carillo & 41mm Kehins etc engine, even on a conservative dyno. Are you still using your stock airbox? If so do take it away and fit large K&N kod filters. Do you still relie on that stock vacuum operated fuel pump? If yes get an electric fuel pump, that vacuum pump is just about OK for road use but for track ridng it's not. Do you have a tall gearing, like 15/38 or less?
My db4 in its previous 904cc layout with dynojetted stock Mikunis & K&N pod filters and stock exhaust already had an output of just over 82HP.
Your tuned engine (provided it has the HC pistons instead of the ST3 pistons) should have an output of over 90HP.
So I think a lot can be gained just by looking at your carb settings, cilinder head flow etc or just the breathing.
With that engine it should give any 2 valve Ducati a hard time keeping up in turns and out of the turns. Even 748's will have to work really hard.
Yes, the 1000DS engine would be nice, but I definately would take a look at the breating of your bike.
That 944cc 41mmFCR engine should not really create a desire for a 1000DS power plant. Just that sound of the FCR's pumping in that fuel mixture under load is exiting.
If you want to I can send you some data of my FCR jet settings etc.
Enjoy your trackriding. |
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RedTop
DB2 #300 |
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deebee4
Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 266
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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| redtop wrote: |
Thank you for your welcoming!
The air box is gone. I use two home made cylinder shaped foam filters. My bike has an electric fuel pump. I thought that was a stock pump, since the electric harness seems to be made for an electric pump?
I jetted the Keihins by careful internet research and verified it using an Innovate Lambda logger. (I welded on mountings for Lambda sonds on my exhaust.) I thought it was good enough for the time beeing, and to be honest I havn't taken the tame to optimise the jetting. I ended up with the following. It would be interesting to compare with your jetting on the DB4.
Needle: OCEMT, middle slot
Main: 160
Slow: 60
Main air: 200
Valve seat: 2.0
Anyway, here's a chart from a road log run with the Innovate logger:
I really don't know much about the pistons, since they where already in the engine when I bought the bike. There are some pics on my blog. Maybe someone can identify them?
Gearing is now 14/40 giving me a top speed of around 205-210km/h verified by GPS on former Swedish GP Track Anderstorp Raceway.
Out of corners is definitely my best. I often give trouble to even 999/1098, but I will of course be outrun on the straight. Stock 748s are definitely having problems even on the straight (if it's not to long). I set my inlet centerline to 107degrees while dialing the cams, following Brad Blacks (Moto One, Australia) ideas. That will give me good torque at low rpm paying the price of lower top rpm power, but at least with my style of driving, I think that will give me the lowest lap times, as I get very good ridability. It also spares the engine as I never get to the really high rpms.
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Hi Lars,
That's funny, my 41mm FCR settings are exactly the same as yours  (haven't written down throttle needle position, but I haven't touched that).
So it's definately the top end performance that was sacrified in favour of torque, as you indicated.
Your gearing is quite low too, with 14/40 compared to my gearing 15/39.
15/38 definately was too high for the stock engine, no way I could run out flat in 6th (I live near the German Autobahn ) so I swapped the rear for one tooth more and it seems cope with it good. Could try a 40 in the rear, but I'd like to have a decent top speed too.
Now, with the tuned engine with 944cc Pistal Racing kit, ported cylinder heads, 41mm FCR's with large conical K&N pod filters, lightened and rebalanced crankshaft & flywheel, light clutch and free exhaust it definately feels a lot stronger and more free revving. It's a blast now, wonder how things would've been with bimota selling the db4 like it could've/should've been in the first place.....
Wheelies no problem no need to pop the clutch, just open up the throttle, out of sharp turns it feels very light at the front in 2nd & 3d gear, shaking a little, exiting....
That wasn't the case with the stock engine with Dynojetted Mikunis, it was quite slow revving up. My engine is tuned now to the limit of the stock con rods, any further without Carillos/Pankl will cause the engine to explode.
So if you want to get rid of your Carillos think about me....
Maybe your cam timing really is too much (too my taste, that is) focused on torque missing out on outright HP. I have the stock SS900ie (Monster S) cams and these work fine for me.
My top speed when there's open space is estimated at over 225 km/h according to other bikes' speedos. Since the speedo of my db4 is crap and now taken off the bike, next time I'll use a GPS to have an exact reading.
Took a look at your pistons and these are no ST3 pistons and indeed HC.
You have a 520w alternator, I thought only the last batch of DB2had the later Duc engine fitted.
Maybe there's some power for you to find if you take a look at the gaskets and flow of the inlet tract: Ducati did sloppy work with intake manifolds that don't really fit well onto the cylinder heads and gaskets that protrude into the inlet tract. If so just cut and grind to have a nice flowing inlet tract to the valve. Doesn't cost anything and will make a big difference. No polishing in the inlet tract, just smoothening out. Only the intake bellmouths are OK to be polished.
I also swapped my Kokusans for the old Bosch BTZ units and they provide easier starting, better idle and good top end behavior. Main condition is that the wiring is absolutely fault free and use thick gauge wires wherever possible.
Working on the bike now, putting it to full track trim after a lowsider crash last year spring. By the time I stop track riding we'll see what's left over to build a decent street bike again.
Cheers! |
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redtop
Joined: 04 Mar 2011
Posts: 13
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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| Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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Really interesting reading DeeBee4 !
I will not put more effort in the original engine, as the 1000DS is on it's way in. I already have DP cams and a light flywheel waiting for it.
There's a lot of fun you can do with a 1000DS engine if you start pouring money in it. Have a look at this thread at Speedzilla:
http://www.speedzilla.com/forums/ducati-supersport/57694-graphs-some-boring-stuff-2v.html
(Same Dyno is used for the Sportclassic as for my DB2).
Both TomTom and lechef are friends of mine here in Stockholm, so much work is already done that I easily can benefit from.
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RedTop
DB2 #300 |
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deebee4
Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 266
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| redtop wrote: |
Really interesting reading DeeBee4 !
I will not put more effort in the original engine, as the 1000DS is on it's way in. I already have DP cams and a light flywheel waiting for it.
There's a lot of fun you can do with a 1000DS engine if you start pouring money in it. Have a look at this thread at Speedzilla:
http://www.speedzilla.com/forums/ducati-supersport/57694-graphs-some-boring-stuff-2v.html
(Same Dyno is used for the Sportclassic as for my DB2).
Both TomTom and lechef are friends of mine here in Stockholm, so much work is already done that I easily can benefit from. |
''The engine is bored to 1123cc, DP cams, one mm bigger inlets, hc pistons, stock diameter 2-1 and the heads taken care of......"
A 10HP difference is nice but I won't call that a "slighty tuned" engine with al that work done to the bore and cylinder heads. Anyway: try to lighten the rotating mass inside the engine wherever possible and don't forget the clutch. That will make the bike a lot more snappier. And check the manifolds etc, because it's still a "mass production" engine with its manufacturing tolerances.
Also your exhaust system might need some work too, to cope with the different injected engine.
Anyway: I'm predicting that you're gonna miss that fabulous sound of breathing FCR's |
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