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X81
Joined: 15 Dec 2020
Posts: 7
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 Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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| hindsight wrote: |
I've never studied a DB6 or a DB10 in any great technical detail, but I would expect/assume, just like on my DB2SR that bimota retained most/all the standard Ducati sensors (please could someone correct or confirm my assumption here?)
As such, while there may be a challenge with physical positioning (I recall from my conversations with Glen that the DB10 Athena ECU is tucked in a confined area), I rather suspect that it may be possible to create a loom adaptor, and have the ability to plug in an alternate ECU (Microtec, Bosch, etc) in, without modifying the loom.
Of course, it would also have to be checked what the Bimota dash is expecting from the ECU, as this may have implications for choice of ECU.
Mike |
Ah i see, well on the early MV's i do my own adapter loom for the 1.6M marelli ECU that allows me to convert that bike from batch fire to fully sequential injection along with a whole host of upgrades.
The most difficult aspect of that job will be fidning the OEM ECU side of the adapter loom plug in order to wire to it. To do trhe MV onmes i had to buy 356 of the ecu plugs. Still only worked my way through 30 or 40 of them in the last 8 years LOL!!
And yes if the dash and ecu are on a CAN BUS then this is the next problem to resolve.
I've set bikes up with Athena before and it's decent software/engine management but i believe their OEM stuff is pretty much locked down so you've little to no scope of adjustment.
Its all fixable but commercially it comes down to demand for putting the ground work in to create the adapter loom and base files and on an individual basis i guess it comes down to desire to acheive your goal and how much you're prepared to financially throw at it. |
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hindsight
Joined: 13 Feb 2010
Posts: 126
Location: Central Scotland
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| Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:46 am Post subject: |
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| X81 wrote: |
| The most difficult aspect of that job will be fidning the OEM ECU side of the adapter loom plug in order to wire to it. |
Ha, yes - I concur, and had similar issues with my own DB2SR project.
The connector used for the DB2 appears to no longer be readily available - it took ages to figure out what the connector actually was, and then finding it for sale was a challenge. and ended up paying waaaay over the odds for only two of them! 
I've since found a German supplier who has them for a bargain price, but was refusing to ship in December quoting Brexit and Pandemic concerns.. 
I would hope/expect that newer ECUs are easier to find. In fact, I seem to recall that Athena publish part numbers for the ECU connectors, which would help a lot. |
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glened
Joined: 15 Aug 2013
Posts: 135
Location: Lancashire
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| Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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Hi everybody,
I am shocked and pleasantly surprised at the amount of interest shown from everyone. I have now stripped "Baby Bim" and removed the tank and air box giving me access to the injectors and throttle bodies. In an ideal world I would prefer to replace the full injection system with a Ducati one. However which one do I use? The engine in the Bimm is 1100 evo engine, so do I look for a Hypermotard 1100 SP or do I look for the 1100s which can use the DS engine? or do I perceiver with the Bimota system and try and tidy up the wiring and make a better job of? and then stick with the Athena ECU and the addition "Rapid Bike Fuel" Module? Hindsight (Mike) has suggested a bespoke eco, I honestly don't know. I will post some images of the bike in its stripped down state. I would appreciate all comments and support.
Regards Glen
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Bimota DB10, Suzuki TS250, Kawasaki Z1A, T120 Trton, AJS650, KTM690 Duke |
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glened
Joined: 15 Aug 2013
Posts: 135
Location: Lancashire
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| Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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Well here goes.
L/H side of Bim.
Looking down on throttle bodies
R/H side looking at throttle body
ECU Images, The ECU is located behind the headstock
ECU connector
Rapid Bike Fuel Module !! and it's wiring.
Theses are the three mechanical relays that fit at the front of the air-box, I would like to replace these with solid state relays, I think that these are available from Ducati?
If there is an image I have not taken and you would like to see anymore pics of the bike then please let me know. In the meantime I will continue with tidying up the wiring loom and hopefully making the loom and connections reliable. I am toying with the idea of upgrading the battery to an 18A version of the Shorai Lithium Iron unit, it will have a CCA of 270 as to 14A I have installed at 210 CCA. Again I would appreciate your thoughts.
Pics of Battery and case.
I could just fit the 18A version with this orientation
Regards Glen
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Bimota DB10, Suzuki TS250, Kawasaki Z1A, T120 Trton, AJS650, KTM690 Duke |
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Gavin944888
Joined: 29 Jan 2014
Posts: 572
Location: Essex....way South of Scotland
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| Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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Glen...it’s Gavin
In the past I have always tried to keep the system the particular manufacture fitted as standard.
I had issues on the DB9 and looked at all options. Bimota delivered a mix match set of ECU Throttle bodies and wiring......there were few options available.....suppliers were not giving full support
Davide Commandini the software guy at Bimota indicated the funds for true development were not made available for the DBX DB10 or DB9.....and by default the DB11
We are all too familiar with releasing bikes to the public and getting monies in to get more out.
X Bikes took my DB9 and did what others couldn’t
XB1.....Chris ...ran a power commander and somehow got it to work with the Bimota Loom.....not easy
Night and day....black and white...pinky and perky..tickety and boo
Faith was resorted....the rest they say is history
Electronics is a dark art....and ...takes time
Choose your assistance ...but I recommend XBikes...but only after they’ve finished one of mine
Gavin
The Scottish Engineer
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On an Island in the River Thames!
Cagiva Elefant 888/955 & adventure sidecar
Cagiva Elefant 999r engined
Cagiva BIMOTA Motard Concept
BIMOTA DB9 (with DB11 rear-end)
BIMOTA DB7-11 VLX MULE (build coming to an end)
BIMOTA DB11 VLX Supercharger |
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X81
Joined: 15 Dec 2020
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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| glened wrote: |
Hi everybody,
I am shocked and pleasantly surprised at the amount of interest shown from everyone. I have now stripped "Baby Bim" and removed the tank and air box giving me access to the injectors and throttle bodies. In an ideal world I would prefer to replace the full injection system with a Ducati one. However which one do I use? The engine in the Bimm is 1100 evo engine, so do I look for a Hypermotard 1100 SP or do I look for the 1100s which can use the DS engine? or do I perceiver with the Bimota system and try and tidy up the wiring and make a better job of? and then stick with the Athena ECU and the addition "Rapid Bike Fuel" Module? Hindsight (Mike) has suggested a bespoke eco, I honestly don't know. I will post some images of the bike in its stripped down state. I would appreciate all comments and support.
Regards Glen |
If you strip this problem down to it's basics the main questions are these:
What model ducati is this bike based on?
What is the standard ECU for that ducati?
Is there a tuning option available for that Ducati?
Did Bimota change any crucial sensors?
Once you answer these questions then this will dictate your easiest route.
Honestly speaking if it's based on something like a 2010 Multistrada i would source a loom for that and start comnparing sensor plugs, approx layout etc.
That generation of Ducati ran the marelli IAW ECU which means something like the Microtec M197 will fit and you can then create a complete custom set up for your DB10.
It's kind of a speculate to accumulate situation. In order to prove a route is possible you've got to invest a bit of money and time into exploring it.
Sensor plugs can be changed, Ducati sensors can be sourced if they have been changed by Bimota, wiring can be modified, brackets made however creating a means by which to have full access and control is the key thing here in my opinion.
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arsenic
Joined: 05 Feb 2017
Posts: 140
Location: France
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| Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:21 am Post subject: |
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Go the easy way, Glen, just sell me your bike i’ll spare you a lot of troubles ! 
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DB8 biposto |
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hindsight
Joined: 13 Feb 2010
Posts: 126
Location: Central Scotland
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| Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:12 am Post subject: |
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| X81 wrote: |
Once you answer these questions then this will dictate your easiest route.
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Fully agree with this - other options are available, including a bespoke job, but I'm not yet confident enough for this to be a reliable enough "primary" option to be an improvement (this may change in time). |
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glened
Joined: 15 Aug 2013
Posts: 135
Location: Lancashire
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| Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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Hi all,
Thanks for the input and suggestions. I agree that the best course of action would be to remove the Bimota system entirely and replace it with the Ducati one. The issue that I have is deciding which bike I choose?
There is, I believe 3 models of the Hypermotard that the DB10 is based upon, and I also understand that the ECU's are different on them. The standard model, the S model or the EVO SP. Or do I deconstruct the DB10 further by saying that it is based upon a DB5 therefore any Ducati that uses the 1078 air-cooled engine!! then I could use an old model Multistrada or Monster 1100s which there are plenty to choose from and they are cheaper than the rarer Hypermotards. My problem is I just don't know enough about Ducati models.
I will keep you all appraised.
Regards Glen
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Bimota DB10, Suzuki TS250, Kawasaki Z1A, T120 Trton, AJS650, KTM690 Duke |
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hindsight
Joined: 13 Feb 2010
Posts: 126
Location: Central Scotland
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| Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:07 am Post subject: |
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Personally, I'd match it to the engine, then check that the planned donor type was fully re-flashable, and that there weren't any physical constraints to fitting (loom, placement, etc), along with any dash requirements.
What's the first part of your engine number? |
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X81
Joined: 15 Dec 2020
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:36 am Post subject: |
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| glened wrote: |
Hi all,
Thanks for the input and suggestions. I agree that the best course of action would be to remove the Bimota system entirely and replace it with the Ducati one. The issue that I have is deciding which bike I choose?
There is, I believe 3 models of the Hypermotard that the DB10 is based upon, and I also understand that the ECU's are different on them. The standard model, the S model or the EVO SP. Or do I deconstruct the DB10 further by saying that it is based upon a DB5 therefore any Ducati that uses the 1078 air-cooled engine!! then I could use an old model Multistrada or Monster 1100s which there are plenty to choose from and they are cheaper than the rarer Hypermotards. My problem is I just don't know enough about Ducati models.
I will keep you all appraised.
Regards Glen |
Totally understand but if we're looking at ducatis then for a long length of time they ran the same IAW Marelli ECU. All that was different was the data contained within it.
So in your position i would look at the following.
Choose the wiring loom closest to the engine year and model that is installed in the DB2.
Models that use the same ecu the The microtec M197 fits are:
Hypermotard 1100
Monster 400
Monster 620
Monster 695
Monster 750
Monster 800
Monster 900
Monster 1000
Monster S2R 800
Monster S2R 1000
Monster S4
Monster S4R
Multistrada 620
Multistrada 1000
Multistrada 1100
Superclassic GT1000
Superclassic Paulsmart 1000
Superclassic Sport 1000
Sport Turing ST2
Sport Turing ST3
Sport Turing ST4
Street Fighter 1098
Super Bike 749
Super Bike 848
Super Bike 998
Super Bike 999
Super Bike 1098
Super Bike 1098R
Super Bike 1198
Super Sport 620
Super Sport 750
Super Sport 800
Super Sport 900
Super Sport 1000
Closest physical fit is most important i'd say. Data is data so as long as the correct base model is picked it'll have the right info to be able to start. After that you just create your own fuel and ignition tables to suit, dial in a few of the overlaying tables and that'll be it.
If you try to match a standard ducati ECU to then fit a powercommander or use the rapid bike module it has the potential to add layers of complexity in my opinion.
Cheers |
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glened
Joined: 15 Aug 2013
Posts: 135
Location: Lancashire
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| Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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Wow!! X81 (I don't know your name) what a wealth of information. Thanks very much.
I think that I will take the advise on board, if this modification to wiring loom does not give me what I want, I will ditch the rapid bike module. I will then get a complete donor bike and fit all the loom, injection system etc. Again thanks for all the Ducati information, I have printed the listing of and added it the Bimota information file I am compiling.
Mike, again thanks for the input the engine number is YACC004**7
I am not giving up on BabyBim and I will bring her to Scotland to see you when the time is right.
Again many thanks to everyone who has looked and commented.
Watch this space and stay safe.
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Bimota DB10, Suzuki TS250, Kawasaki Z1A, T120 Trton, AJS650, KTM690 Duke |
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