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Mantra Fuel PUMP and spark plugs
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bidalot



Joined: 14 Feb 2012
Posts: 75
Location: Paris

PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:33 am    Post subject: Mantra Fuel PUMP and spark plugs Reply with quote

Hi everybody,

I would like to know what kind of fuel pump fits the DB3 Mantra.

I think it's a MIKUNI DF44-210 (14 liters/hour). Is it right ?

And for the spark plugs, my ducati dealer sold me CHAMPION RA6HC, but the owner manual of the mantra says CHAMPION RA7HC.... Is there a big difference ?

Thanks a lot.
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brian



Joined: 22 Aug 2011
Posts: 3769
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, until yesterday (thanks to DeeBee) i didn't know that gadget bolted to the bottom of the tank was actually a pump. I thought it was just a vucuum valve. Since then i've done some searching on the net and i think you are correct, the MIKUNI DF44-210 looks like the correct pump. The pump on my db4 actually has Paioli moulded into it but i can't find any reference anywhere to a Paioli unit.

There's a few of the Mikuni pumps on ebay and cheap enough that i might just order one myself. Not sure if mine is operating correctly but haven't tested it as yet.

Not sure about the plugs. I couldn't remember what plugs were in my db4 so i just slipped up to the shed and pulled one out to check Wink , it has the champion RA6HC plugs in it.

Cheers,
Brian
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bidalot



Joined: 14 Feb 2012
Posts: 75
Location: Paris

PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Brian,

I ordered this Mikuni fuel pump for my mantra.

I red on ca-cycleworks :

"This fuel pump is a suiteable replacement for the hexagonal OEM Mikuni fuel pumps as fitted to the Ducati Monsters. Ca Cycleworks first researched the aftermarket Mikuni pumps when owner Chris was left stranded in El Centro on his 1997 Monster 900 "Pongo". These pumps have a plastic and rubber membrane that only lasts so many years. They are expected to fail eventually. OEM replacements are over $100.


We have used and sold this pump on Ducati Monsters since 2001. Many people call and ask what the flow rate is. Do you know how much flow rate you need? Why do you need to know the rate? Wink 14 liters per hour is the answer. What does that mean? 14 liters = 3.7 gallons. How much fuel can you consume in an hour? Consider an unusually low 20 mpg; at 60 mph equates to 3 gallons meaning 11.4 liters per hour requirement. Sounds like this pump is just right."
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deebee4



Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 266
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When you have to replace a broken vacuum pump I would advise to replace it with an electric fuel pump like this one:


It's a very reliable low pressure fuel pump made by Mitsubishi and used on many many Japanese bikes like Yammie FZR, YZF, XJ, etc, Kwackers ZX6xx, ZXR etc and Honda's CBR etc. In fact most of the later carburetted bigger displacement Jap bikes have used this pump. So on FleaBay there are lots of them for sale.

Funny thing with vacuum pumps is that they deliver best when the pulses are high (so the vacuum difference is high) and that's especially at low revs. The higher the revs the lesser vacuum pulses the lesser fuel it pumps up. Not what we need for serious reliable fuel supply. The electric fuel pump is a mebrane pump too and delivers at a constant rate and stops pumping as soon as it feels some resistance (like i.e. when the float needle closes the orifice where the fuel gets in the float bowl). That's nice.
When idling it pumps now and then and when under load it keeps pumping as long as the float needle will let fuel through.

I've used it on the db4 on road and track for over 10 years now and never had a problem with it. I always carry a spare one with me when going to track, but never needed it.

Just make a suitable bracket that holds it vibration free and the wiring comes from the switched +. Easy and worthwile modification, better starting (it primes the float bowls right away should these be empty or under level) and better running at high revs.

Spark plugs: I use NGK DCPR8EIX in my db4, only used on track for the last 6 years. No problems at all. Ditch any resistor type spark plug covers and use unrestricted full silicone covers (like Arietes). You might change the spark leads too by now because of age and hardened rubber. Also use copper core silicone insulated non restistor leads. (I use the red NGK racing cable, double insulated silicone lead)

Cheers!
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Uros



Joined: 22 Aug 2011
Posts: 37
Location: Slovenia EU

PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yo deebee4, do you have a model number for this pump so I can look it up on Ebay or something? There are several models for cars and so on but I didn't find one for motorbikes... Also, can you explain more clearly how to connect it to the electricity of my Mantra?

It so happens that right now my oem pump leaks fuel a little so after a ride I smell like a real petrolhead:)Smile, so I have to close both petrol valves every time I park the bike to stop the leak.

Can anybody tell me if you close the petrol valves on each side of the tank regularly over night or just over the winter?? Maybe it is supposed to be closed every time you stop the bike and that is why the pump started leaking... I don't know.
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Uros



Joined: 22 Aug 2011
Posts: 37
Location: Slovenia EU

PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh and one more thing, my Ducati mecanic told me that we could even take the pump out and just connect the cables together so the bike would run even without the pump. On some Monsters it worked just fine... so, I don't know, maybe I could try that too. But I'm sceptical, because Bimota wouldn't put a pump if it didn't really have to, right?

Well, on the other side, it has two batteries although it works perfect with just one too...Smile

http://s17.postimage.org/qpo9uz0n3/DSC01587_no_plate.jpg


Last edited by Uros on Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Uros



Joined: 22 Aug 2011
Posts: 37
Location: Slovenia EU

PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bidalot, did you put on the Mikuni pump? Does it work fine?
Thanks.
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2bims



Joined: 03 Apr 2010
Posts: 7289

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uros wrote:
Oh and one more thing, my Ducati mecanic told me that we could even take the pump out and just connect the cables together so the bike would run even without the pump. On some Monsters it worked just fine... so, I don't know, maybe I could try that too. But I'm sceptical, because Bimota wouldn't put a pump if it didn't really have to, right?

Well, on the other side, it has two batteries although it works perfect with just one too...Smile

http://s17.postimage.org/qpo9uz0n3/DSC01587_no_plate.jpg


It would run without the pump, as it just operates on vaccum from a tube connected to the inlet tubes, BUT, its only working by Gravity, and as such you would have to keep the fuel tank topped up continually high so that the gravity element works, as soon as you are on low fuel it will starve the carbs. Have to say the electric ones are great, I have no choke on my DB2 and with the electric pump it immediately charges the carbs when the ignition is on, whereas the vaccum pump needs the engine running to create the draw from the inlet tube
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Uros



Joined: 22 Aug 2011
Posts: 37
Location: Slovenia EU

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

2bims wrote:
Uros wrote:
Oh and one more thing, my Ducati mecanic told me that we could even take the pump out and just connect the cables together so the bike would run even without the pump. On some Monsters it worked just fine... so, I don't know, maybe I could try that too. But I'm sceptical, because Bimota wouldn't put a pump if it didn't really have to, right?

Well, on the other side, it has two batteries although it works perfect with just one too...Smile

http://s17.postimage.org/qpo9uz0n3/DSC01587_no_plate.jpg


It would run without the pump, as it just operates on vaccum from a tube connected to the inlet tubes, BUT, its only working by Gravity, and as such you would have to keep the fuel tank topped up continually high so that the gravity element works, as soon as you are on low fuel it will starve the carbs. Have to say the electric ones are great, I have no choke on my DB2 and with the electric pump it immediately charges the carbs when the ignition is on, whereas the vaccum pump needs the engine running to create the draw from the inlet tube


Yeah, I thought something like that too. It's logical. 2bims, thanks for the confirmation. That is also why it is hard to start the bike after it has been sleepin' for half a year. Anyway, maybe I would go for the electric pump too, but I don't know which model and version to take...
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oily



Joined: 05 Apr 2008
Posts: 4788
Location: worcestershire

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know it's not the same but the SB6R has a vacuum operated pump......
I threw mine in the bin and the bikes run great ever since....full tank, low tank, low speed, long periods of high speed Wink
Makes me wonder why Bimota fitted the useless thing Rolling Eyes
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Uros



Joined: 22 Aug 2011
Posts: 37
Location: Slovenia EU

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, maybe a 4 pot machine takes the no-pump situation better than a 2 pot. I'm thinking of trying this option too.
So now we have 3 options:
-Mikuni pump,
-electric pump,
-no pump.

+ still no opinion on whether to close the two taps under the tank after every run or just over winter...

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2bims



Joined: 03 Apr 2010
Posts: 7289

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hhmmm, fuel taps on or off. Can't be specific on Mantras, but I always switch off, and if I was storing for a month or so I'd switch off whilst engine is running, until the carbs starve themselves and engine kills. That way no stale fuel evaporating and leaving sticky residue over the winter. I have a KTM that has a handy side accessible drain screw and attached hose, stick a bottle under and turn and switch off.
Most Bimotas are "designed" for the taps to be left on as you often have to remove the tank/seat unit to be able to access it. The pumps shouldn't leak, unless they are shot, in which case they need changing anyhow
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Uros



Joined: 22 Aug 2011
Posts: 37
Location: Slovenia EU

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2bims wrote:
Hhmmm, fuel taps on or off. Can't be specific on Mantras, but I always switch off, and if I was storing for a month or so I'd switch off whilst engine is running, until the carbs starve themselves and engine kills. That way no stale fuel evaporating and leaving sticky residue over the winter. I have a KTM that has a handy side accessible drain screw and attached hose, stick a bottle under and turn and switch off.
Most Bimotas are "designed" for the taps to be left on as you often have to remove the tank/seat unit to be able to access it. The pumps shouldn't leak, unless they are shot, in which case they need changing anyhow


Yes, I think so too. The taps are not the usual Japanese system with the reserve click and all. They are just some kind of screws that have to be winded up until closed, very unpractical for everyday use. They are probably only for longer stills.
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2bims



Joined: 03 Apr 2010
Posts: 7289

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Uros
Yes, I think so too. The taps are not the usual Japanese system with the reserve click and all. They are just some kind of screws that have to be winded up until closed, very unpractical for everyday use. They are probably only for longer stills.[/quote]

If you can access them easily then yeh, turn them off, if not. leave them on, you can always put a remote "dry break" connector into the fuel line, after the taps, easily accessible, you put it where you can get to it, and simple click and pull apart to isolate supply and flow, far better for when removing the tank also. If its any saving grace, even on the DB2 and 4 they have "normal" taps that can be switched off or turned to "On" and Eh "On" again, so still no reserve, so no better than what you already have. Not an issue as long as your trip meter works OK
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Uros



Joined: 22 Aug 2011
Posts: 37
Location: Slovenia EU

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another good idea 2bims, thanks! Smile
This forum is cooler than I thought...Smile
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