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oily
Joined: 05 Apr 2008
Posts: 4788
Location: worcestershire
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 Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Evilchicken0 wrote: |
| Yeahbut - The 20 layers won't just be carbon. |
There won't be 20 layers and there certainly won't be any glass involved.
For me to invest all this time and money = much, much lighter...much, much stronger.
| Evilchicken0 wrote: |
The original bodywork for what it is, isn't particularly heavy.
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You are joking... right?
I get the message Boris...your not interested
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Evilchicken0
Joined: 12 May 2010
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Location: London
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| Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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| oily wrote: |
Yes it would need more than one skin....but 20 layers would still be lighter than the original |
Well if you don't know..... 
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morepower
Joined: 10 May 2012
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| Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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Nice idea..... Like the idea of proper carbon bodywork.. Anyone weighed the original stuff??
My fairing weighs in at between 1 and 1.5Kg and the seat unit without the base is about 2.5Kg but it is only that heavy because it is self supporting and has no subframe..
I would say how many layers there are in there but as a good friend of mine points out... Those are the candy making secrets...
I like the mirror idea Evil... How would you do them? As covers or as full mirrors? |
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oily
Joined: 05 Apr 2008
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Location: worcestershire
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| Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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...Yep ...I've weighed the original bodywork but I'm not going to post it as it might make someone look a bit silly....
As a matter of interest...did you use less than evil's 20 layers?
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morepower
Joined: 10 May 2012
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| Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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Erm... I can neither confirm nor deny that most of the seat/tank is quite a bit less than 5 layers or only just more than one layer. I cannot confirm nor deny the thickest sections are more than 5 layers but less than 15 layers...
20 layers... Erm.. nah.. It would be so stiff that you could use it for sections of the forth bridge.... |
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oily
Joined: 05 Apr 2008
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| Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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As I thought
...and you didn't mention glass once
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morepower
Joined: 10 May 2012
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| Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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Glass........... OH yep.. The stuff look at pre-preg though with your face pressed up hard against, as you dream about having it on your bike......
Oh there you go... mentioned glass.... |
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oily
Joined: 05 Apr 2008
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| Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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...Sounds to me like your talking about window lickers
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Evilchicken0
Joined: 12 May 2010
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Location: London
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| Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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Oily - you said 20 layers.
There was a layer of white stuff in those heal gaurds though.
The mirrors would be full not covers - the only problem would be making the "socket" for the ball that the mirror mounts to.
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morepower
Joined: 10 May 2012
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| Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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Evil.. The heel guards needed a layer of Diolen for some abrasion resistance so the diolen can be delivered in white or black and I have no option of which unless I order 100 linea meters of the stuff so spending over £400 just for heel/master cylinder covers it was a case of getting what was sent. Carbon on its own would be OK but heel plates are there for abrasion and Diolen is 400% more resistant than just carbon.
Not sure where the figure of 20 layers came from. But I know what is in my kits and although there is over £700 worth of pre-preg in there alone, I know the thickest points are still less than 20 layers.. As for breaking.. Never ever throw pre-preg parts away unless they are destroyed... You can put pre-preg back into the mould and patch it up a lot easier than you can wet lay parts.. Carbon parts are more stable and do not shrink as they cure over the 7 to 14 days wet lay parts usually do so will always be a perfect fit back into the mould... (wet lay can shrink up to 5% and may in some cases not go back into the mould if it has to fit over something like a filler cap....where pre-peg always will)
Ok.. Nice idea.. The only problem I see is getting the inside profile made to accept glass and not end up with a £600 pair of multi part moulds and I am not sure how you would form the socket for the arm as it would have to have a ball shape inside there to get that shape and the carbon would not flex to allow it to be removed from the mould as it would be very stiff and not have any flex at all... I have seen huggers 2 layers thick (about .6mm thick) crack a 20mm thick mould just because the part had not been removed from the mould while it is still warm and the mould contracted round the part and even at that thin the mould cracked first!
Last edited by morepower on Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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oily
Joined: 05 Apr 2008
Posts: 4788
Location: worcestershire
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| Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Evilchicken0 wrote: |
| Oily - you said 20 layers. |
Don't quote me out of context boris...I said "
Yes it would need more than one skin....but 20 layers would still be lighter than the original"
| Evilchicken0 wrote: |
| There was a layer of white stuff in those heal gaurds though. |
I would like to know what your implying?
| Evilchicken0 wrote: |
| The mirrors would be full not covers - the only problem would be making the "socket" for the ball that the mirror mounts to. |
That would be the only problem would it?
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Evilchicken0
Joined: 12 May 2010
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| Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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You can see the way the mirrors are inside that they're an injected mould and obviously designed for plastic
Doilen .... I see.
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morepower
Joined: 10 May 2012
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| Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Evilchicken0 wrote: |
You can see the way the mirrors are inside that they're an injected mould and obviously designed for plastic
Doilen .... I see. |
Yep.... Injection moulding has steel moulds and the plastic is flexible.
If you want to know more about Diolen it is used in F1 and other FIA open wheel cars (Formula series like F1, F2, F3, F4 and Formula Ford for anti intrusion side protection)
Also Diolen is commonly used in the manufacture of Canoes and Kayak's and many more applications where high impact strength is important.
We have used Diolen between layers of chopped strand matting to achieve a rigid structure which has very high impact resistance, as an example Diolen has been incorporated in the manufacture of lifesaving equipment, in one application 265g Diolen is sandwiched between chopped strand matting, this specification allowed the container to be dropped from a height of 36 mt with a packed weight of approximately 200kg without any punctures or critical damage to the shell, what tends to happen is the glass fibre will break, but the Diolen will absorb this impact and more or less spring back into shape. It is essential it is sandwiched between layers of glassfibre matting for maximum strength, or effectively laid on the reverse of a laminate, which is usually apparent in canoe/kayak construction. |
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Evilchicken0
Joined: 12 May 2010
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Location: London
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| Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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Usfeul if your garage gets flooded then 
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stockcar
Joined: 07 Apr 2011
Posts: 836
Location: in the shadow of the "angel"
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| Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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maybe the white stuff went up someone's nose..............  |
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