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First day on the dyno
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Matty82



Joined: 10 Jul 2014
Posts: 155

PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ha, I love the fact that everyone's 500 is a bit different too the next. Mine is like yours Seth, I would post a pic but it's harder to work out how to upload photos than to send a man to the moon. Anyways can someone upload the quick release version they have as I was going down this route as I remove the tank after every ride.
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Matty82



Joined: 10 Jul 2014
Posts: 155

PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just checked the fuel release rate of my tap (similar to that of the oil tap) an it's very good. I even had a look at the 250 an it was less than half the rate, the bikes all run well, so not sure if it is a bad system? Would still like the QR setup as it will speed up my setup time Smile
One last thing, I was told 1000 miles running in, I'm happy with this, then I would love to see it on the dyno just to check all is well an get the best setup. Sound sensible guys???
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2bims



Joined: 03 Apr 2010
Posts: 7289

PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Each to their own with the running in...manuals have 2 stages of max revs up to 1000miles....but given how some of them are "test ridden" before being delivered it may be futile anyhow......For myself I kept it below 7 thou revs for first 500 miles...as best as I could.... Laughing Then I dropped and changed the gear box oil, plugs changed also...then turned the Oil pump flow way back to what it should be.......not had any issues so far
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SethG



Joined: 09 Aug 2014
Posts: 95

PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matty82 wrote:
Just checked the fuel release rate of my tap (similar to that of the oil tap) an it's very good. I even had a look at the 250 an it was less than half the rate, the bikes all run well, so not sure if it is a bad system? Would still like the QR setup as it will speed up my setup time Smile
One last thing, I was told 1000 miles running in, I'm happy with this, then I would love to see it on the dyno just to check all is well an get the best setup. Sound sensible guys???


It's hard to guess what's different, but there's no way mine could flow much of anything with that piston in there.

I cut 1/2 of it off this morning so I can at least repeat the dyno tests with full fuel flow:





Also, those metal plates on the bottom of the fuel tank assembly weigh in at 383 grams!

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Matty82



Joined: 10 Jul 2014
Posts: 155

PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When do you expect it back on the dyno an are you doing any other changes?
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SethG



Joined: 09 Aug 2014
Posts: 95

PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm guessing early next week, and I'm not doing any other changes but I'm going to run it normally and again with the power valves left open, which looks to be doable by just pulling the power to the servo motor, since the default position appears to be up/open.

If after sorting the fuel system out, and locking the power valve open, it still seems to be missing 20+ hp, then I'll probably disconnect both exhaust pipes and check the power valves themselves and verify they aren't stuck closed in some way that's not obvious from the outside.

After that I'll be officially out of ideas.
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dingbat



Joined: 17 Sep 2013
Posts: 46
Location: uk

PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi there, likewise, great post. My bike was "the last EF 10 "at that particular time in October 2013 number in the 370's. Its with Piero's jetting and I havent touched it. As per your dyno readout - and as I had mentioned in an earlier post - It has - like the others the real rough patch from about 4500 -5300 rpm. This rpm band is of course as we Brits know right around the safe cruising speed on UK roads in the gears you would use - so you have to (!) use rpm which dont really work well if the representatives of the local constabulary are out for a drive. I think we all rev through it and put up with it. Apart from the abrupts 2 stroke power drop off after max rpm dont seem as yet to have wall though I will when time permits get mine onto the local dyno and if I can get the results onto BF I will. Still at 500 miles and havent gone to max rpm yet for more than a few seconds, but it seems to rev OK. I'll take a look at the petrol pipes and report back, mine has the extra side mounted fuel tap which I had Piero put on before I picked it up. On the other bikes I have had which were equipped with powervalves some from new were set up which didnt open fully. As suggested by others, look up the exhaust port if you can - if its not fully open then it probably should be. Again, had this on my RS 250 when it was new. Dont know if it was intentional on the part of Aprilia or not. Likewise after a years ownership now having discovered how V Dues have been put together I would definitely agree its possible you have the wrong program in the dash. I am told Its all part of the fun ! Good luck Smile
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SethG



Joined: 09 Aug 2014
Posts: 95

PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dingbat wrote:
Hi there, likewise, great post. My bike was "the last EF 10 "at that particular time in October 2013 number in the 370's. Its with Piero's jetting and I havent touched it. As per your dyno readout - and as I had mentioned in an earlier post - It has - like the others the real rough patch from about 4500 -5300 rpm. This rpm band is of course as we Brits know right around the safe cruising speed on UK roads in the gears you would use - so you have to (!) use rpm which dont really work well if the representatives of the local constabulary are out for a drive. I think we all rev through it and put up with it. Apart from the abrupts 2 stroke power drop off after max rpm dont seem as yet to have wall though I will when time permits get mine onto the local dyno and if I can get the results onto BF I will. Still at 500 miles and havent gone to max rpm yet for more than a few seconds, but it seems to rev OK. I'll take a look at the petrol pipes and report back, mine has the extra side mounted fuel tap which I had Piero put on before I picked it up. On the other bikes I have had which were equipped with powervalves some from new were set up which didnt open fully. As suggested by others, look up the exhaust port if you can - if its not fully open then it probably should be. Again, had this on my RS 250 when it was new. Dont know if it was intentional on the part of Aprilia or not. Likewise after a years ownership now having discovered how V Dues have been put together I would definitely agree its possible you have the wrong program in the dash. I am told Its all part of the fun ! Good luck Smile



Can you lift your tank and take a picture of the fuel connector between the tank and the side-mounted petcock?
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vort28



Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 2194
Location: Northwest , UK

PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SethG wrote:
378 delivered to the U.S. in mid 2010, thanks!

Wrong dash for sure, but 20-30hp?


Seth, sorry for delay, but been waiting for Piero.
He says that sort of drop in power is not the map alone , he also seems to point to the power valves not opening properly. Says he needs the dash in Italy to re-flash.
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vort28



Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 2194
Location: Northwest , UK

PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SethG wrote:
Does anyone have a photo of the underside of their tank? And the other connector?



Sorry for delay , but photo of twin pipe set up.

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2bims



Joined: 03 Apr 2010
Posts: 7289

PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thats another different set up to mine...mine has a larger pipe single outlet thats quick release on the tank itself...then splitting to a 2 pipe set up after that........
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SethG



Joined: 09 Aug 2014
Posts: 95

PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh man, thanks for the photo, at least makes sense from a packaging perspective.

If I can get another base plate manufactured like that, then I can get similar fittings put in and be good to go.
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SethG



Joined: 09 Aug 2014
Posts: 95

PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's what I did with mine, I pulled out the existing fitting, then I took it apart and cut the piston down by 50% so I could remount it for testing. I then proceeded to lose the middle fitting and it's all got strange threading I couldn't identify.

So I had to start over, I drilled and tapped out the mount to be 18x1.5mm because it was larger, and a common thread size. It had been presently threaded at 16 x 1.0mm. Then I put in a metric to AN converter so now it's an AN-8 fitting. The rest is just a series of pain-in-the-ass as I figure out how to break it down into the two small lines for the carbs.

I managed to find a temporary way to hook everything up, so I'm eager to get it on the dyno again soon.

Long term, after all I've learned about these carbs, I think they need a fuel pump to not only maintain good supply at high speeds, but also to keep the supply constant across all conditions. Again, long term, what I'd like to do is put a fuel pump back in, go back to smaller fittings in general, then pressurize a fuel-pressure regulator designed to work with carbs. You can get several that have a single input, dual output and a "boost reference" which enables you to feed the signal back from the airbox and compensate for ram air pressure. Then you swap the fuel inlet valves in the carb for something under 200 and you should have a very solid running carb.

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