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Injection > Carbed. Doable?

 
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Zweitakter



Joined: 28 Apr 2014
Posts: 8
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 12:07 pm    Post subject: Injection > Carbed. Doable? Reply with quote

Hi all.

Now that Evos are out of stock and prices on the rise I cannot help wondering how it would be to modify an injected bike to a carbed one.

Mainly due to the injected ones seems to have a reputation of never being possible to sort properly to 100% with the orignal injection system?

I would not mind hearing about success stories of original injected bikes though. I know there are some good runners with modified injection systems, but I am not to keen on going down that route (should be said I am not an owner yet)

If you look purely at the mechanical side of it (I know the CDI and electronic will need attention), what is the main shortcomings of the injected chassis and bodywork that would need modification to allow for either;

1. a complete carbed engine swop

2. or refitting with carbed cylinders (given a sorted crank injection engine in the first place)

3. is there anyone out there who have already taken this one and can describe in more detail?


Kjell
Norway
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vort28



Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 2194
Location: Northwest , UK

PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Early carbed bikes were only modified injection bikes with the injector holes in the cylinders blanked off and a set of carbs on the front. OK they also had the tolerances sorted, crank seals fixed etc etc.
But if you had a late injection , with all the engine mods , it might be possible these days to get an aftermarket ECU programmed to work.
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BOFFER



Joined: 20 Mar 2015
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would definitely re-iterate what Vort has said and you need to backtrack a little before proceeding. I would contact Piero at the factory with your engine and chassis number and ask him what its had done. As Vort says, the early ones had nothing done and were sold with dodgy crank seals / oil passages etc and not fit for purpose. Piero then semi fixed these with uprated seals / passages / ecu etc and sold them as injection bikes which were sort of ok but riddled with other issues. As time went on he also put carbs on some injection bikes with little else and it was sort of ok. It was only towards the last few years that some really well sorted carb bikes left the factory with few or no issues. Once you know what Piero has done to it that's your starting point, if he hasn't done anything, I would consider it an ornament and just send it back to the factory for sorting. If its had all the hard work done but just needs carbs fitting its do able but a tough job. Good luck.
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BOFFER



Joined: 20 Mar 2015
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would definitely re-iterate what Vort has said and you need to backtrack a little before proceeding. I would contact Piero at the factory with your engine and chassis number and ask him what its had done. As Vort says, the early ones had nothing done and were sold with dodgy crank seals / oil passages etc and not fit for purpose. Piero then semi fixed these with uprated seals / passages / ecu etc and sold them as injection bikes which were sort of ok but riddled with other issues. As time went on he also put carbs on some injection bikes with little else and it was sort of ok. It was only towards the last few years that some really well sorted carb bikes left the factory with few or no issues. Once you know what Piero has done to it that's your starting point, if he hasn't done anything, I would consider it an ornament and just send it back to the factory for sorting. If its had all the hard work done but just needs carbs fitting its do able but a tough job. Good luck.
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Weed



Joined: 29 Dec 2013
Posts: 250
Location: Perth Australia

PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trev45. Come to aisle 11.
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trev45



Joined: 15 Jun 2011
Posts: 449
Location: Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 5:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It can all be done easy no problem
but do you have a bike yet ?

Trev
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BOFFER



Joined: 20 Mar 2015
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trev, if you can take a v-due engine and replace its crank seals / oil route passages / bin the injection system, fit carbs, fix the electrical gremlins and get it running perfect and find it easy with no problems, then you are a much better man than most on this topic and I for one salute you. Its just a shame you didn't work at Bimota when they built the vdue or they may not have ended up where they ended up. Good man.
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2bims



Joined: 03 Apr 2010
Posts: 7289

PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As others have said...all possible....but getting even a standard injection model is expensive...if its a task you fancy from an engineering point then fine...if its a view to getting and sorting one into a fine running carb version to save money on sourcing a sorted one then you probably wont save anything...and could cost more....bodywork between the models injected/carbed is the same...but the carbies have new carbon 2-piece air boxes fitted to each carb with air intakes up high...and the belly pan on early carbies was modded with infill pieces to accommodate a spread of the bellypan/body panels for the increased girth...final versions had a one piece carbon belly pan made wide enough to accommodate.....Battery used to be under tank, but moved forward.....clocks were changed as ecu is built into clocks on carbie and separate from clocks on injected and is under the tank...as others have said though its whether the bottom end and top end have had all the mods....first issues were porous casings and starvation of bottom crank bearing from oil...so new cases, new seals and drilled pathways were put in
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trev45



Joined: 15 Jun 2011
Posts: 449
Location: Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/lilydale/motorcycles/bimota-vdue-500cc/1109122070

Buy this one , its new

Trev
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vort28



Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 2194
Location: Northwest , UK

PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking at picture 8 that seems to be a carbon infill for the front of the fairing covering the front cylinder and plug.
Anyone else got one of these as never seen a carb bike with this. Whats this like for cooling as find the fans come on a vdue as soon as you stop at a junction.
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2bims



Joined: 03 Apr 2010
Posts: 7289

PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Advert says low down that the item is a custom carbon fibre carburetter guard...certainly seems well made and a good fit...and stops just short of the radiator...cant help but feel though that if used on the road it wouldnt help the aerodynamics at all or cooling....be like riding with a small door bolted to the front wheel
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trev45



Joined: 15 Jun 2011
Posts: 449
Location: Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The EFI ones did not have air running to the motor and no problems at all
It is no different to the way the EFI air box sits standed

The cover was made in OZ by a friend that does this stuff for a job
it is a perfect job and makes it easy for plugs / tuning etc
and keeps the engine clean and tidy

Trev
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vort28



Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 2194
Location: Northwest , UK

PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know the EFI airbox basically fills the front of the fairing , like the cover , but was wondering with the extra power of the carb bikes, and maybe the extra heat they may generate because of this , does the cover cause any over heating issues on a carb bike ?
Do you run any with the cover on Trev ?
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trev45



Joined: 15 Jun 2011
Posts: 449
Location: Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes and it is fine no problem

Cheers Trev
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Matty82



Joined: 10 Jul 2014
Posts: 155

PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Must admit when I saw this add a while back I too thought she might run too hot with the extra cf fitted. It certainly would stop all the crap the sticky front tyre picks up an throws in. I'm in two minds about it!
Cheers for you help trev as ever
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