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Starting problem
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bannrikae



Joined: 17 Feb 2016
Posts: 45
Location: Kent

PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 9:35 pm    Post subject: Starting problem Reply with quote

Hi Everyone.

I need some help with my new V Due.

I've owned her for a couple of months and so far have not had much luck, I had Battery issues to start with.
After fitting a new Battery and fuel filters, cleaning the carbs and replacing the Float needle valves, I managed, after a lot of trying, to get her started.
I took her out for about a 15 mile run.
It was difficult to pull away, this I think was due to one of the Carb slides being about Five mill higher than the other, also at WOT she was hesitating/intermittent which felt like fuel starvation.

So another stripdown to balance the Carbs and remove the Fuel filters which I think may have been restricting the flow.

However, now she will not start, she attempts to start occasionally but after 10 to 20 attempts the plugs are soaking.

I have cleaned the plugs and tried her with Choke and without choke, have replaced the plugs and checked the choke pistons are working correctly.

She only seems to turn over maybe once or twice before the starter clutch disengages.

In this Vid below, the bike turns over several times before starting which makes me think the sprag clutch may be the problem,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4Ul5b_u59w

Sorry for the long post, just trying to pre-empt any questions.
Hope someone can help as I really want to get her out on the road Laughing

BG
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vort28



Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 1708
Location: Northwest , UK

PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome to the Forum.

First things first , what spec is the vdue and where did it come from ? Did you see it running before you got it ?

When you say the starter clutch disengages , I assume you mean the starter spins with no engine turning ? not the starter locks up?

There are a few starting issues , but these usually manifest themselves in the engine turning once or twice and then stopping. This is usually down to sprag clutch , dirty switch gear contacts or bad earth connections.
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bannrikae



Joined: 17 Feb 2016
Posts: 45
Location: Kent

PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi vort28

Thanks fr the reply.

It's one of matt82's and yes I did see it running.

Its an Evolution with carbs, I've had it running a couple of times but it's always been a problem to start, the engine will turn over maybe once or twice at which point it attempts to fire, then the starter seems to dis-engage but I don't think the starter motor continues to run after this has happened.

I will try to get a vid up on you tube tomorrow and post the link.

BG
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vort28



Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 1708
Location: Northwest , UK

PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So if it turns over and then seems to mechanically lock might be the sprag bearing housing.
Whats it like if you take the plugs out and release pressure of bearing ? will it spin OK.
Sent you a PM
Where are you in the UK ?
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bannrikae



Joined: 17 Feb 2016
Posts: 45
Location: Kent

PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Thanks Vort28 for your help so far.

Bike turns over fine with one plug removed, I've checked the main earth and it's connected to one of the starter motor bolts and seems tight.

This is a quick vid of her on one of the rare occasions that I got her started.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYRzNj7W7AQ&feature=youtu.be

And this is a Vid I have just taken showing the starting problem, I had just fitted new plugs and a freshly charged new Battery,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yC294GPV1Q&feature=youtu.be

It looks to me that she is not turning over enough and that the starter motor is disengaging too soon.

I guess this must be a sprag clutch problem?

If so, which parts will I need to replace?

BG
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vort28



Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 1708
Location: Northwest , UK

PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm , that is not what I thought was happening.
If it is the sprag clutch housing, then there is a good chance the bolt heads or some swarf will be attached to the magnetic gear box sump bolt . As its done a few miles I would pull the sump plug and see what you find .

Replacing the sprag housing is not that difficult and probably a good check anyway.
You will need a Ducati clutch basket holder tool , the large spanner type, not the one's that bolt to the engine, the clutch basket nut tool, which you said you had, the sprag bearing housing and maybe some M4/M3 bolts, can't remember which they are.
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bannrikae



Joined: 17 Feb 2016
Posts: 45
Location: Kent

PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, thanks vort,

Will I need the bearing as well or just the housing?

Obviously I will need to strip it down before I start ordering parts.
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vort28



Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 1708
Location: Northwest , UK

PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What generally happens is the screws that hold the housing on snap or work loose , which then allows the bearing to move slightly when it tightens onto the shaft, which then locks the whole assy up.

So Bearing generally OK , its the 1mm plate that is formed into the bearing housing that is needed.
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2bims



Joined: 03 Apr 2010
Posts: 4450

PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Bannrikae......Hhmmmm...As vort is saying so far....although I always pull the clutch also when starting to lessen the load on the starter.....Would also suggest dropping the oil......theres a wonderfully large magnet on the sump plug that collects swarf...and sprag clutch tiny screws if theyve fell off into the box (they are supposed to be loctited in but often arent...)
Its only 0.90 of a litre of gearbox oil anyhow....take off the "filler cap on the LHS first.....you may need a special thin sided wrench as most sockets wont fit onto it due to engine casings that are above it...and my standard socket set wouldnt fit over it as it was too wide...so I bought a thin sided spanner....Normally from the factory...despite what everyone says...they come filled with putrid smelling swamp gunk...possibly 20 years old...or only half a litre....theres a small allen headed bolt that you remove to the left and below the brembo clutch slave unit that is "supposed" to be for you to look in and check the oil level....well if you are a mosquito theres a chance you can see through it...ruddy small hole is tiny....normally I drain oil....refit sump plug....fill with 900ml with bike on rear stand vertical.....then put a container under the engine and pull the small bolt I described and let it run out any excess unitl it stops running...refit tiny bolt and refit oil filler bolt (shiney alloy piece)....some people use a large syringe to fill the gearbox...hole is also tiny and it wont take a large flow...I have a rig of a funnel and tube that I insert and lleave it to gurgle away........

You could also try checking the cable tension on the exhaust valves...theres supposed to be no slack....4 threaded adjusters...do you have the english workshop manuals? They diagnose starting problems and show full engine strip and more...very handy to have.......
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bannrikae



Joined: 17 Feb 2016
Posts: 45
Location: Kent

PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi vort
Ok, i've had a look at the manual and I think I understand what you are saying. It should be clearer once I strip her down.

2bims
Thanks for the info, that will all be usefull. Did you see the vid I posted, pretty sure its the sprag clutch, at least thats what I've convinced myself Shocked so I will be stripping it down and changing the oil in the process, probably start tommorow. I'll also check the cable slack.
I will update on here in case it's usefull to anyone else.

BG
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2bims



Joined: 03 Apr 2010
Posts: 4450

PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bannrikae wrote:
Hi vort
Ok, i've had a look at the manual and I think I understand what you are saying. It should be clearer once I strip her down.

2bims
Thanks for the info, that will all be usefull. Did you see the vid I posted, pretty sure its the sprag clutch, at least thats what I've convinced myself Shocked so I will be stripping it down and changing the oil in the process, probably start tommorow. I'll also check the cable slack.
I will update on here in case it's usefull to anyone else.

BG


I did see the vid....sounded a lot of clanging which is why I thought of gearbox oil refresh......also check throttle cables have sufficient slack and they've not been tightened/advanced to try and increase tickover....open carbs, open throttle when trying to start just floods the cylinders....someone may have tried to advance the throttle to aide getting off the line..as they are a bit of a pig if youre not used to 2-strokes...3.5-4 thou at least and slip the clutch.......Newbies and 4 stroke boys try 1.5-2thou and it will stall every time....guaranteed....and the Vdues wont start in gear unless bump starting...and they sometimes show neutral but arent in it....and sometimes are in neutral...but it doesnt show it...and the ECU wont let it start in either case...so has to be in neutral..and has to be showing on the dash....just the usual Italian Quirks.........

Bike has to be started or at least fire until massaging the throttle can be introduced...has to be caught and slowly slowly eased up to 3-4 thou until it will go beyond 5 or 6 thou and run and rev clear...then choke can be turned off straight away...on that day of running it should then start all day on the first prod with gas and run and rev straight thru without issue....they like to be run it has to be said...presumably your oil is turned on? Presumably it is switched off after you put it away? or it keeps running thru the carbs and draining into the airboxes...most of us switch or disconnect the fuel line also...But hey..its a 2-stroke...and Italian....but when running on song and riding you'll forgive twice what it can throw at you in problems..... Laughing
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bannrikae



Joined: 17 Feb 2016
Posts: 45
Location: Kent

PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've read one of youre eirlier posts regarding the starting quirks so was aware of these.
Starting tips should be usefull.
Not a 2 stroke newby but no expert either, I do always turn the oil off and i'm lucky as the bike has one of the fuel taps fitted on the outside.

Can't wait to get her starting and running on song although quite enjoy working on her as well.

BG
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2bims



Joined: 03 Apr 2010
Posts: 4450

PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah....a "lurker" eh?? well at least with the forum their is history and knowledge and all there to be viewed and shared...not like this Facebook Farce with no search or history or any darn use other than to see what some vague acquaintance is having for lunch......Welcome anyhow.....presumably your first Bimota? Certainly in at the deep end with a Vdue....patience will be rewarded with riding....its stopping thats the issue.....you end up surrounded as if a victim at a road crash scene or someone throwing tenners away for free....Be prepared for the usual questions...Is it a 2-stroke? Whos engine did they use? Whats it go like? How fast is it? Are they as bad as the press said back in 1997?....only 1% of bikers know anything of significance....so thats a tiny proportion of the worlds population.....
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bannrikae



Joined: 17 Feb 2016
Posts: 45
Location: Kent

PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah yes, I am guilty of a bit of lurking. I think I read most of the forum before I brought the bike. I was looking at the one being sold by "The bike specialists" in Yorkshire, but when that one sold I kind of gave up the idea until Matty82 put his up for sale and as he is only 20 miles down the road, it was rude not to go and have a look, and the rest is history as they say.

Off to the shed now to start pulling bits off the bike, hopefully be sorted soon.
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BOFFER



Joined: 20 Mar 2015
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iam reliably informed that the one at Sheffield had been down the road anyway so I thing fete helped you out there. Once its running you will love it.
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