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DB7-11 VLX MULE resurrection
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GeeKay



Joined: 29 May 2009
Posts: 1605
Location: West Yorkshire

PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have no idea what you are doing, Gavin, but it's intriguing............. Very Happy
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Bimota SB6 and SB6R road bikes.
Project bikes:- Suzuki V4 500, TS185 rural cafe racer, XR11/71, Kettle/Katana, TDRGV250, OR50, Gag125,Triumph T595 and a Triumph X75 Hurricane replica (with a difference).
Too many projects...............
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CBR_DBR



Joined: 19 Sep 2015
Posts: 21
Location: Canberra Australia

PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Love reading about the progress of your project Gavin!

I love tinkering with bikes but this is definitely a couple of levels up...

Cheers,

Mike
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Gavin944888



Joined: 29 Jan 2014
Posts: 337
Location: Essex....way South of Scotland

PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gents....many thanks BUT bear in mind the project started 4 months ago....even if the reporting of it is in as many weeks.

I use the mechanics and engineering as a bit of release from the normal 9-5.

Always wanted to be involved in bike building but there was never enough money in it, so went into tool making and design.....so it purely for my own entertainment, might as well enjoy it.

The engineering looks difficult but it is mainly just assembly....it is the supercharger section and airbox which need brawling up.

And I am following a path and referring to reports and images from engineers who were actually developing..

.....I am just copying and tinkering....this is not rocket science to me but then...I can't paint, read an wiring diagram or understand either of them

Everything has ground to a bit of a halt as my contacts and machine shop owners are either at the Spanish GP or are in Northern Ireland at the NW200


I will be glad to get them back next Thursday....as the bearing cups and final airbox fabrication are waiting to be finalised

Thanks for your comments and similar to GeeKay....I likewise am intrigued as how it will turn out

I'm off to twiddle my Beta T handle Allen keys...make you feel like a pro

(A race mechanic....not some female in a basque ....with a foreign accent and wicked intent)

Regards

Gavin
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On an Island in the River Thames (sounds wonderfull...doesn't it)

Cagiva Elefant 944/ST2 engined
Cagiva Elefant 888/955 engined
Cagiva Elefant 999r engined

BIMOTA DB9 (with DB11 rear end)
BIMOTA DB7-11 VLX MULE (project build with no end)
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Gavin944888



Joined: 29 Jan 2014
Posts: 337
Location: Essex....way South of Scotland

PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Untitled by Gavin Robertson, on Flickr


The comment on the bellmouths ...about cutting 2 in half and rejoining them led to some confusion.

Obviously it was a wee bit more complicated as you would have finished up with a round bellmouth again, if you followed my instructions.

The 2 bellmouths were cut and 'worked by hand with heat' in order to get an oval...then welded up again.



Untitled by Gavin Robertson, on Flickr



The stepper motor has been loosened and repositioned allowing for the SuperCharger...............aaahhh the Supercgharger.

It arrrived from Australian on Good Friday week and we got to offer it up on the Thursday night after work.

It isn't small and it was SEIZED......no matter what we did it would turn freely....so we dismantled it, whilst whisling Dixie.

We were also reminded of Weed...from the forum not the stuff you smoke....and his comment 'Wait and see'


Untitled by Gavin Robertson, on Flickr



Locked solid...no use to any man other than for measuring....I was going to have to contact DJT77 again.....this man will be sick of my emailing

DJT77 did a great job of asking my stupid questions and brokering the deal....he then shipped it over to the UK.

He was about to get an email...telling him it was coming back again....like a boomarang or a Rolf Harris nightmare.

Whilst it was here in the UK, I assembled it ... in the order it was meant to fit.



Untitled by Gavin Robertson, on Flickr



It was too big....as you can see by the hatched markings on the unit.



Untitled by Gavin Robertson, on Flickr


Anything outside the line would have to be cut or re positioned...including this bit not even bolted on yet!


Untitled by Gavin Robertson, on Flickr



This is what it is meant to look like.....and this is how it goes together



Untitled by Gavin Robertson, on Flickr






Untitled by Gavin Robertson, on Flickr







Untitled by Gavin Robertson, on Flickr




Once dismantled into larger sections, you can see the dilema ..BUT ..also see, how to overcome it...I think!



Untitled by Gavin Robertson, on Flickr




By turning a maniflod section round and re-positioning it ....you could cut the manifold plate at the markings and offer it up to the underside of the BRIDGE inbetween the bellmouths.


I reckoned that the new cut section (of the bridge) could run a series of slots ....enabling the correct positioning of the supercharger on the bike and get any alingment issues taken care of.



That would mean machining slots and a larger inlet hole in the bridge but...I was planning to machine it anyway to line up with the Supercharger outlet....currently covered by SPRINTEX stick tape to protect the innards.



This would mean cutiing the SPRINTEX manifold plate.....as per the pen marks....makes no sense until you can 'see it'...and as they say...what can go wrong!


Untitled by Gavin Robertson, on Flickr


Armed with this info...........I packed up the Sprintex and sent it back under.


DJT77 got it back (in PERTH) and took it to Sprintex who arranged to manufacture a new one..the one that they has supplied me with was made in 2010 according to the date stamps......hope the new one works.


more soon......and thanks again to the Men from Down Under

Gavin
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On an Island in the River Thames (sounds wonderfull...doesn't it)

Cagiva Elefant 944/ST2 engined
Cagiva Elefant 888/955 engined
Cagiva Elefant 999r engined

BIMOTA DB9 (with DB11 rear end)
BIMOTA DB7-11 VLX MULE (project build with no end)
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GeeKay



Joined: 29 May 2009
Posts: 1605
Location: West Yorkshire

PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you must have a good supply of marker pens........................ Very Happy
_________________
Bimota SB6 and SB6R road bikes.
Project bikes:- Suzuki V4 500, TS185 rural cafe racer, XR11/71, Kettle/Katana, TDRGV250, OR50, Gag125,Triumph T595 and a Triumph X75 Hurricane replica (with a difference).
Too many projects...............
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Gavin944888



Joined: 29 Jan 2014
Posts: 337
Location: Essex....way South of Scotland

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GeeKay...

I am using using pens after my engineers blue ran out.

Tried to find some Engineers Blue on the tintin net...got some very strange activity on the search.

Things got scarey and I haven't been able to look a vernier in the eye for the last 2 weeks.

Gavin
_________________
On an Island in the River Thames (sounds wonderfull...doesn't it)

Cagiva Elefant 944/ST2 engined
Cagiva Elefant 888/955 engined
Cagiva Elefant 999r engined

BIMOTA DB9 (with DB11 rear end)
BIMOTA DB7-11 VLX MULE (project build with no end)
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GeeKay



Joined: 29 May 2009
Posts: 1605
Location: West Yorkshire

PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tinterweb's great, innit!?
I did a search for lead wire (as in the metal, lead, pb and and all that) but an anomoly of the English language brought up test lead wires for electrics instead.
Eventually found some that is, and I quote,
A versatile lead wire. Use to weight nymphs and buzzers.
Hmmmmm..........
_________________
Bimota SB6 and SB6R road bikes.
Project bikes:- Suzuki V4 500, TS185 rural cafe racer, XR11/71, Kettle/Katana, TDRGV250, OR50, Gag125,Triumph T595 and a Triumph X75 Hurricane replica (with a difference).
Too many projects...............
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brian



Joined: 22 Aug 2011
Posts: 2692
Location: QLD, Australia

PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeez Gavin sounds like it's getting challenging (more challenging!).

Any thoughts on why / how the supercharger became siezed? Was it a manufacturing fault or just because it's been sitting so long?

Will they now make you a 'custom' supercharger based on your dimensions and markings?
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Current motorcycles - '99 Bimota DB4, '96 Bimota SB6, '08 VTX1800, '93 ZXR750R M1, '95 ZXR750, '95 ZXR750 Race Bike, 94 CBR400rr NC29 Race Bike, '94 CB250, '49 BSA C10 250, 61 BSA A10 650
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brian



Joined: 22 Aug 2011
Posts: 2692
Location: QLD, Australia

PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still watching with great interest by the way Laughing
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Current motorcycles - '99 Bimota DB4, '96 Bimota SB6, '08 VTX1800, '93 ZXR750R M1, '95 ZXR750, '95 ZXR750 Race Bike, 94 CBR400rr NC29 Race Bike, '94 CB250, '49 BSA C10 250, 61 BSA A10 650
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Gavin944888



Joined: 29 Jan 2014
Posts: 337
Location: Essex....way South of Scotland

PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello..............

The supercharger was delivered back to Sprintex by DJT77 and they gave no indication as to what may have happened to it.

It was assembled in an engine room and there was no chance of contamination from our point...so it really is done to them in OZ.

DJT77 oversaw the collection of the newly manufactured replacement and it arrived back in the UK about 2 weeks ago.

Postage back and forth passed the 750 AUSD mark.......but.. still a lot better to have and hold (the supercharger) rather than just wishing.

There was no chance of asking for a custom build...I am taking what they supply and re engineering items to fit my application.

If it all works out...I might buy another as a back up....in 2 years time it will be impossible to source again....so DJT77...when the exhange rate moves....I may be emailing you again.

Other than this it is going as I expected although the start of the racing season over here has slowed access to my contacts.

I will be picking up some new bits this week and will post some images of the next section of modifications shortly, but progres will slower as this weekend I was at an Elefant meeting in the (Peak District) UK with the 999r fant.


Untitled by Gavin Robertson, on Flickr



The riding season is upon us....(thank goodness)

reagrds
Gavin
_________________
On an Island in the River Thames (sounds wonderfull...doesn't it)

Cagiva Elefant 944/ST2 engined
Cagiva Elefant 888/955 engined
Cagiva Elefant 999r engined

BIMOTA DB9 (with DB11 rear end)
BIMOTA DB7-11 VLX MULE (project build with no end)
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Gavin944888



Joined: 29 Jan 2014
Posts: 337
Location: Essex....way South of Scotland

PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bimota folk...here is another tale, scraped from under the nails of a dedicated tinkerer.....


Whilst waiting for the Supercharger...I got the bottom yoke and steering stem separated as described before.


This allowed attention to be given to the front end. First were the Diavel forks....the Brembo M4 radial calipers (from a BMW something) and their hi tensile bolts.



Untitled by Gavin Robertson, on Flickr



The Diavel forks were BLACK off of a new (200 kms) bike and almost unmarked....and at the correct price




Untitled by Gavin Robertson, on Flickr



You can still make out the Ducati Bar Code Part Number stickers on the forks.



Untitled by Gavin Robertson, on Flickr




On this image you can make out the manufacture date (2013)




Untitled by Gavin Robertson, on Flickr



The forks were to be stripped and a set of new cartridges inserted allowing for the 'new' donor bike weight change.




Untitled by Gavin Robertson, on Flickr




The OEM Marzocchi Diavel internals were swapped for a set of Andretti units.....better engineering and better adjustment...so they say...on the Diavel Forums....not one complaint...just rave after rave




Untitled by Gavin Robertson, on Flickr




I use a local motocross company to re fit all my fork stuff and I have yet to be disappointed...these were more complicated than the RAC50 fitted to the DB9 so they charged 70 pounds...for the change over and new oil!



The top yoke will be fabricated and the OEM DB9 swivel cup handlebar clamps will be fitted to the billet....these will fit on the bars




Untitled by Gavin Robertson, on Flickr




I have to make a new front wheel spindle to take the front wheel....which looks pretty good with its Beringer BoTT discs.




Untitled by Gavin Robertson, on Flickr




Untitled by Gavin Robertson, on Flickr



The budget choice of Bennelli TNT 1130 wheels can be changed if everything works out fine...but in the meantime...costs are costs.


Wiring looms, clocks, ECU and all things electric, next up.........I hate electrics

regards

Gavin
_________________
On an Island in the River Thames (sounds wonderfull...doesn't it)

Cagiva Elefant 944/ST2 engined
Cagiva Elefant 888/955 engined
Cagiva Elefant 999r engined

BIMOTA DB9 (with DB11 rear end)
BIMOTA DB7-11 VLX MULE (project build with no end)
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Gavin944888



Joined: 29 Jan 2014
Posts: 337
Location: Essex....way South of Scotland

PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The wiring has been a bit of an issue!

The original plan was to source BIMOTA parts but this proved to be impossible.

So....I thought bearing in mind the Ducati Diavel engine....buy Ducati Diavel electrics.......'simples' as the stupid advert says! So...get in touch with my Dutch Ducati contact and lay out a shopping list.

First up the ECU, then a Black Box Control unit, then some wiring stuff and clocks...both types the top and bottom clocks

....added to this there was the Fly by wire throttle bodies and other stuff inc Traction Control and ABS!

Great...all good and ready to sync to the keys and lock-set which BCP has supplied.

This is about as far as it got.

MotoRapido (Official Ducati Franchise have worked on some of my stuff before and I knew them from the Ducati 4 valve 888 engine into a Cagiva elefant frame, thereafter....it's upgrade to P8 from P7 ECU and twin injector per cylinder system I had fabricated)

They were charged to sync all the systems up to each other and get the clocks talking to the ECU ...the Black Box...the FbW throttle bodies and the Keyless ignition system.

I chose them as a) I knew them and b) they had an IN with Ducati and could verify the build and that it had NOT BEEN STOLEN.

Once they were talking to each other the loom with all the bits would return where my usual guy DucatiProteam (in Kent) and they would unpick the Riding Modes...the ABS the Traction Control.

Basically they were disabling about 60% of the functions BUT it would all work.....and on a BIMOTA key

Scottish engineers are probably known the world over for inventing:

Tyres...although the French dispute this....Asphalt for roads...although the Americans dispute that and for the: Telephone and Television......although the Italians dispute this.

Armed with such animosity towards, both Alexander Graham Bell and John Logie Baird .....the Ducati factory came back with an answer for my Anglo-Italian project....5000 GBP to get them all talking to each other....and no guarantee of the final outcome.

I HATE ELECTRICS..............

MotoRapido suggested that I bought a Diavel (from them) and transplanted the parts and sold the balance on via Fleabay or similar.

It was a bit late for this decision.....and in 2 weeks the Manchester show was looming ....lots of Italians and possible options could be contacted and met before then.

Via a contact on this site I had been given an alternative to FERRET the Wireman....a company based in Coventry or Milton Keynes and they made looms and stuff....race, street, custom build or repair.

they are called Electro 34 ( a bit like a disco from the 1970's but without the big hair or shoulder pads)

In addition I had stumbled across XBikes in Wisbeach...he has worked at Vyrus and was a ECU programmer and certified MicroTec supplier.

He also ran the MV Agusta race team in his day and listened to my plight.

BimotaClassicParts also took the inquiry and their initial response was to stick with all one make Ducati and retro fit.....

(they offered an alternative and sourced the OEM BIMOTA wiring loom and ECU....so NOW I had an alternative to Ducati...not 1 but 2)

So that is where it sat....for a month or so until I could locate the parts....and decide on the way forward...BUT paying 5000GBP was never going to happen.

More soon....and I still hate electrics!

regards
Gavin
_________________
On an Island in the River Thames (sounds wonderfull...doesn't it)

Cagiva Elefant 944/ST2 engined
Cagiva Elefant 888/955 engined
Cagiva Elefant 999r engined

BIMOTA DB9 (with DB11 rear end)
BIMOTA DB7-11 VLX MULE (project build with no end)
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Gavin944888



Joined: 29 Jan 2014
Posts: 337
Location: Essex....way South of Scotland

PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So....whilst waiting on my head choosing the correct route for the wiring options I took solace in machining and building.


I had sketched out on a sheet of paper a bearing cup idea I had....the steering stem was going to be longer than standard and bigger heavy duty bearings.



Untitled by Gavin Robertson, on Flickr


The new taper bearing see the new dust covers


Untitled by Gavin Robertson, on Flickr

The new bearing cups are fitted to the Bimota headstock

Untitled by Gavin Robertson, on Flickr


In a typical BIMOTA fashion the actual diameters top and bottom are different sizes!!


Untitled by Gavin Robertson, on Flickr


So each side had to be measured and a cup made to suit......the final look.


Untitled by Gavin Robertson, on Flickr


Added to this the front forks were machined and mated....machined to take the new internals and mated to the OEM Diavel bottom yoke.


IMG_0154 (2) by Gavin Robertson, on Flickr


This allowed the front wheel to be spaced and the discs to be aligned.


IMG_0152 (3) by Gavin Robertson, on Flickr



Once all the spacers had been made they along with the disc carriers went straight to the Anodizers.



IMG_0155 (3) by Gavin Robertson, on Flickr


The calipers were simply located....I know that they are USD....and the nipple should be at the top.


IMG_0153 (3) by Gavin Robertson, on Flickr



I will take some images of the items when they return and post .....the front end will be finished EXCEPT the top yoke


For now it is back to the charger and all that it entails!!


Gavin
_________________
On an Island in the River Thames (sounds wonderfull...doesn't it)

Cagiva Elefant 944/ST2 engined
Cagiva Elefant 888/955 engined
Cagiva Elefant 999r engined

BIMOTA DB9 (with DB11 rear end)
BIMOTA DB7-11 VLX MULE (project build with no end)
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Gavin944888



Joined: 29 Jan 2014
Posts: 337
Location: Essex....way South of Scotland

PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahhhhh...the Supercharger.

A thing of beauty from down under. Unfortunately I had to fabricate a Bridge to suit its new surroundings.....and figure out a safe drive method... this was the FIRST VERSION!



Untitled by Gavin Robertson, on Flickr



Utilizing a Ducati Lay Shaft and some gears .....eventually locating onto the drive pulley for ratio NUMBER 1......the engine to 1st pulley



The new lay shaft in position ready for the VERSION 2.......after reading the dangers of over revving and over running a supercharger.


20170414_095043 by Gavin Robertson, on Flickr



A supercharger running at 18000 rpm needs some wriggle room or it over drives the pulley driving it.


The small screw with the coloured LOCTITE on it is where the OIl pressure switch should sit.......I had to move it!

20170414_095039 by Gavin Robertson, on Flickr



This slipper clutch was sourced from Australia .......and was developed by the world famous DUCATI Tuners VEE TWO



Once tightened up on the layshaft the anti hopping or slipper clutch rotates backwards from the drive motion

This stops the 18000 rpm supercharger (and all that inertia travelling down the shaft) and breaking the layshaft....


This is version 3 in my drive assembly and it is the final choice. VEETWO broke a good few engines before developing this little slipper clutch.

To add insult to injury......the Ducati engine runs ANTI CLOCKWISE


I had made a transfer gear but SPRINTEX supplied a Anti-clockwise supercharger..............a rare thing indeed.


The bridge was extended to fit the frame before machining and the supercharger fitted where it meant to.

Also there are some locating points fixing the bridge to the frame via four M6 threaded bosses welded into the frame.

This will allow the weight of the Supercharger to be spread over the 2 main fixing points (with the 4 M6 bolts) and the 2 large M8 on top of each cylinder head.

No weight from the Supercharger (4 kilos) will be passed onto the rubber type inlet manifold.......another issue which cause engine failure on the early prototypes.



Untitled by Gavin Robertson, on Flickr




This allowed me to formulate a sliding mechanism to hold the supercharger and to slide in slots in the bridge to allow pulley alignment.




Untitled by Gavin Robertson, on Flickr



The sliding arrangement will help alignment and the marker pen marks show the movement range of the air slot...back and forth to suit.



VUntitled by Gavin Robertson, on Flickr



The bridge looks VERY ROUGH with all the welds and added bits BUT this is 'make it as you go' engineering......it can now go on the mill for shaping the machining of slots and fly cutting.



IMG_0156 (2) by Gavin Robertson, on Flickr



Getting ready to tidy up the bridge...........losing some metal and making good on the overall design.......even dressing up some of the welds on the bellmouths.




IMG_0157 by Gavin Robertson, on Flickr



The slot and sliding mechanism now work fine and the bridge is almost ready to join the air box properly.


More soon.............

Gavin
_________________
On an Island in the River Thames (sounds wonderfull...doesn't it)

Cagiva Elefant 944/ST2 engined
Cagiva Elefant 888/955 engined
Cagiva Elefant 999r engined

BIMOTA DB9 (with DB11 rear end)
BIMOTA DB7-11 VLX MULE (project build with no end)
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TVRRICH



Joined: 05 Feb 2016
Posts: 122
Location: Coventry UK

PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fascinating stuff Gavin, keep it coming.
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