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Bike accident and the need for Camera's
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Tirefriar



Joined: 18 Dec 2014
Posts: 518
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

brian wrote:
Sorry to hear that it's not going so well Stu. I'd be super pissed too. We pay ridiculous money for insurance, hoping that we never need it, but also hoping that they will look after us if the worst happens. Bastards!


I deal with insurance companies on daily basis and very very few step up to really take care of their clients. Most will welch out of paying for proper repairs.
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vort28



Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 1912
Location: Northwest , UK

PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tirefriar wrote:

I deal with insurance companies on daily basis and very very few step up to really take care of their clients. Most will welch out of paying for proper repairs.


I am finding this out.
So not only have I been emailing BCP trying to get prices but I found a replacement 5R in a dealers, a dealer that was more than willing to talk to the insurance and help them with costs/bike value.
The insurance however ignored all the info I gave them and put their own value on the bike which is not realistic.
Wouldn't mind but I have all my bikes on one policy and the premium is not cheap.
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Evilchicken0



Joined: 12 May 2010
Posts: 2810
Location: London

PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ask them which "book" they're using for their value
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quikduk



Joined: 13 Aug 2016
Posts: 182
Location: Southern California, USA

PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This may not be much help but...

There is a non-R for sale in Beverly Hills for $13K USD.

https://www.cycletrader.com/dealers/Beverly-Hills-Motorcycles-2895340/listing/2006-Bimota-DB5-Mille-120338914

There was a 'R' model for sale a while back on eBay but didn't meet the reserve $21K USD.

I don't know what "new costs" were from Bimota but if my DB6 (non-R) was stickered at $29K USD (with the 'R' model being $3K-$4K USD more), I would think the DB5R would be more like $38K USD.

This Tri-Colore was on a local Craigslist ad for $20K.

http://www.bike-urious.com/2006-bimota-db5r/

Bimota Spirit shows a 170 mile 2008 DB5R for $24.5K USD with a list price of $36.5K USD.

http://www.bimotaspirit.com/for-sale

You can also call these guys if still in business and ask how much this one sold for in 2015.

https://www.madeinitalymotorcycles.com/single-post/2015/11/29/Bimota-DB5-2011-Sold

Good luck.

BTW, I am pretty highly insured too due to all of the idiots with recent licenses here in Southern California where everyone has a "right" to drive like an idiot. I hope I never have to use it to CY my A!
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Tirefriar



Joined: 18 Dec 2014
Posts: 518
Location: USA

PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stu, in your case your insurance company is acting in bad faith. they took your money but are failing to properly cover your property at a time of a loss. In the states, one can file a complaint with Department of Insurance. If you have proper documentation to back up your complaint there's a decent chance of DOI persuading the insurance company to step up.
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who



Joined: 10 Nov 2010
Posts: 347
Location: Melbourne Australia

PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So Vort, you actually have insurance on the bike that was damaged? This reads like you are an uninsured rider trying to convince a defensive wrongdoers insurance agent that you have been aggrieved?

If you are insured, it may pay to have a solicitors letter sent to your insurer, demanding a higher level of representation in this matter, or a letter from yourself stating that if the level of representation you are receiving doesn't improve dramatically, you intend to have a solicitor act on your behalf. With all costs being invoiced to your said insurer.
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vort28



Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 1912
Location: Northwest , UK

PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WHO - Yes I am insured , and I thought it was though a good company.
However , having never made a motor claim I was maybe giving them a little bit more credit for intelligence and fair play than I should have.

My policy covers a number of named bikes and all with a guess at the value. There was an option to do agreed but this required 'official status ' to value, club/factory etc , and lets face it who can put a value on a Bimota.
I enquired at the time about this and they said it was not really worth it as if I insured a 50cc scooter for 2 million they would still only pay me out the 2k it was worth , however if I insures something for 2k to keep the premium down and then made a claim for 20k obviously that would not be paid either . The upshot was the value I put on them had to be realistic and in the event they would look at market value etc , which I did.
Fast forward 6 mths , on the way home from a ride I get knocked off my 5R , which ended up on the road.
I call the insurance and am instantly bounced through 3 offices as claims are outsource to third party companys. Not only that but there are different companies dealing with the actual accident and who's fault , one dealing with the bike and damage and 1 dealing with the compensation for gear and injuries.
None are the actual insurance company , none of them talk to each other, they all have different claim references , OH and the most important thing , they ALL obviously only get a fixed fee per claim handled , so are not interested/have far to much work to do and want to close the claim ASAP .

So the vehicle engineer turns up at my house 2 days before I go on holiday for 14days, I have previously spoken to him, explained who Bimota are and what they do, the limited number production runs and the fact my bike is one of a hand full in UK and one of circa 40 in the world.
One arriving I show him the bike, first thing first, its clear he is not a biker, does not really deal with bikes, but is obviously a local self employed valuer who wanted the extra cash/job for looking at the bike.
So he asked for the frame number , I point it out , ' OH ' he says , 'something wrong ' I ask ? , ' yes, this frame number is incorrect' , in what way I ask ' ? , ' well the last six digits are the unique number , he say ' and yours is all zero's bar the last 2 ' he says , ' and your point is ' I enquire , ' Have you not listened to a word I have said ? there is less than 40 of these in the world so why would the frame number be any greater than 40 ' ? . Bloke was clearly just there to get the money to write the report.
So I gave him a few numbers/emails/website for him to help value etc.
2 weeks later after my holiday , when I call him , he had not had time to enquire , in the mean time BCP come back to me with a mainly blank on parts , but a glimmer of hope, there is a 5R in a UK Italian bike dealer . I call the dealer he agree's to help , smelling a sale, I give details to vehicle engineer , 2 weeks later he still has not called the dealer , he decided he would ' do his own investigations but turned a blank ' . So again I request he call the dealer and tell him the asking price for the 5R. A week passes and still nothing, so I ring the engineer and ' its on my list'!!
I then receive a call from the actual insurance company asking if I am happy with the progress of my claim , the poor girl got more than she bargained for , ( as have you Who Laughing ) , anyway 30 minutes later I get a call from another company and am informed my 5R has been written off and the market value is 12k , which strangely is the right digits the Italian dealer used just in the wrong order !!
I now find myself as a middle man between the dealer/the engineer and the valuer as ' its not company policy to speak to 3rd party dealers' , trying to broker a payout and a replacement bike , but at best this looks like it is going to cost me 4-5k to have the exact bike , in the same condition that I had 7 weeks ago.

To say I am un-impressed is an under statement .

Oh , and yes it turns out I may be to blame for the accident as surely I should be more aware of my surroundings and anticipate other road users not following the laws of the land !!!!

So I going to have to pay for the privilege of having an undamaged 5R , loose 15yrs no claims , not be able to ride for 6-8 weeks due to my ankle and then get reamed next year on my premium !!

So the moral of the story, value on the very high side of reasonable that will not affect your premium , and ride with a camera .


Last edited by vort28 on Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Evilchicken0



Joined: 12 May 2010
Posts: 2810
Location: London

PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

who wrote:
So Vort, you actually have insurance on the bike that was damaged? This reads like you are an uninsured rider trying to convince a defensive wrongdoers insurance agent that you have been aggrieved?

If you are insured, it may pay to have a solicitors letter sent to your insurer, demanding a higher level of representation in this matter, or a letter from yourself stating that if the level of representation you are receiving doesn't improve dramatically, you intend to have a solicitor act on your behalf. With all costs being invoiced to your said insurer.


Or get onto the ombudsman http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/about/index.html
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TVRRICH



Joined: 05 Feb 2016
Posts: 127
Location: Coventry UK

PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry to hear of your accident and problems vort. Sounds like i was lucky with my spill this time last year. I suppose mine was simpler as i just fell off mine on my own(idiot). My DB2 sustained damage as in indicators, mirror, one exhaust silencer, Part of the rear brake linkeage and damage to the fairing complete with a fair bit of paint damage to fairing seat /tank etc. I phoned my insurers straight away, they logged the claim and put me straight in touch with the underwriters who dealt with the claim from then on. they were pretty good and when it came to seeing who would deal with the assessing and repairs they gave me the choice of their people or as it was an unusual bike could i suggest anyone else. I suggested North Leicester M/C as thats where i bought the bike from and they used to be Bimota dealers, they were fine with that. I then phoned NLM asked them if they would do it, Chris at NLM said yes so i gave him the underwriters details and my claim number. The bike went to NLM was assessed and BCP quoted for the parts (which luckily they had), Dream machine quoted for paint and NLM for labour. NLM contacted the underwriters who accepted the quote pretty much straight away. The parts were ordered Paint done(took a while!!), bike put back together, and bike returned to me,i really had little to do with it. My premium has gone up a bit this year but i think they have in general anyway.
So hearing your account i think myself very fortunate.
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Bud977



Joined: 03 Mar 2013
Posts: 369
Location: Sydney

PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What a nightmare Vort.

I'm surprised your insurer can bounce you to third party companies. Your insurer is taking the money so they should handle the claim. What else do they get paid for?

Here in Australia it is illegal to fob people off to a third party.

eg. With warranty claims on goods, sometimes the seller tries to get you to contact the manufacturer, but ultimately the seller is responsible and have to look after the warranty.
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vort28



Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 1912
Location: Northwest , UK

PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TVRRICH, do you know how much Dream machine quoted for the job ? what was it , thje whole fairing ? Obviously Dream machine one of the big paint companies , would you recommend ? is it a good job ?
Out of interest , who are you insured with ?

Bud977 , yeah not great , but then they say you only know how good a company is when you claim !!!

Sorry for the rant , was having a bad day yesterday and needed a bit of a vent !!!!

The only thing I am grateful for is when I renewed last year I re-valued all my bikes up Laughing

But with what looks like what might be the last exit of Bimota bike and parts prices are probably set to rise.

Look at NLM , I seem to remember they had a DB2FE for about 9k was it 2 yrs ago, now want 14k for a similar one !! Not a bad increase !!


Last edited by vort28 on Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Gavin944888



Joined: 29 Jan 2014
Posts: 349
Location: Essex....way South of Scotland

PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

VORT.............I am aware that you probably do not want to keep talking about it BUT which Insurance Co should 'we' stay clear off.

Also, I had similar valuation issues and the forum formed a 'club'...no rules, no subs but a 'head of contact' in each country where the 'paperwork' could be sent.

Also made it easier booking events, tracks, etc

That was the CagivaElefantRiders but it had pdf headed paper, regional contacts and got an extra club discount and recognised status with DVLA as regards aging and and valuing.

Just a thought...BUT it would need someone like 2Bims to come back to run it though

The status of BIMOTA and the lack of parts at BCP can only potentially cost us all!

regards
Gavin
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TVRRICH



Joined: 05 Feb 2016
Posts: 127
Location: Coventry UK

PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Vort, my insurance is with Footman James, Its a classic policy as its over 17 years old. I dont actually know the price of the paint work but i will try to find out from NLM, it was the whole fairing (which was repaired first) and the seat tank unit. Im happy with the job but as you work at Jag in Whitley at times and im in Coventry you are welcome to come and look yourself. By the way the DB2 FE you refer to at NLM 2 years ago is my bike but it was up for 10500, but as you say the one for sale is almost 14000, i wonder if the fact its a pukka UK bike gives it a premium ?
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vort28



Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 1912
Location: Northwest , UK

PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did have the FJ classic policy but was convinced buy 2bims to go to Peter James which is actually a company called KGM. One thing I know is that come April 2018 I will be looking around for another insurance, well thats hoping my claim is settled by then.

To be honest the dealer that wants 22k for a DB5R is dreaming a bit , but that is my take on it. All I know is I had a mint DB5R and I want another and he has one so market value is what he ask's therefore what I want from insurance.

Problem is its supply and demand. Easy with an RC30/OWO1/RC45/NSR250 etc as there are half a dozen of each on ebay , but whats the value of a DB7 / SB7 ?? DB2 ??? Only one for sale in UK and 14k , so is that what they are worth now ? All very subjective.
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vort28



Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 1912
Location: Northwest , UK

PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did have the FJ classic policy but was convinced buy 2bims to go to Peter James which is actually a company called KGM. One thing I know is that come April 2018 I will be looking around for another insurance, well thats hoping my claim is settled by then.

To be honest the dealer that wants 22k for a DB5R is dreaming a bit , but that is my take on it. All I know is I had a mint DB5R and I want another and he has one so market value is what he ask's therefore what I want from insurance.

Problem is its supply and demand. Easy with an RC30/OWO1/RC45/NSR250 etc as there are half a dozen of each on ebay , but whats the value of a DB7 / SB7 ?? DB2 ??? Only one for sale in UK and 14k , so is that what they are worth now ? All very subjective.
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