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Bimota factory closed for good
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Jaguar



Joined: 15 Sep 2017
Posts: 53
Location: Albany NY

PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think Bimota really completes with MV at all in the market.
Nor should it.

My opinion is people either want a Bimota or don't. It isn't something that gets cross shopped. An MV is either bought as an art piece, or to one up a Ducati owning friend.

Engine supply is, and seems to have always been an issue.
But there are ways around it.

Main problem now is identity.
When Bimota started it was solving and engineering problem by giving good motors outstanding frames. Then once the OEMS caught up Bimota moved to just building exotic bikes. The selling points were how rare and well built they were. It became less about performance it seems.

Now, what should they do?

Go racing and be a performance brand?
Is there really a case to solve some engineering issues with OEMs?
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vort28



Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 1813
Location: Northwest , UK

PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Problem is if you buy a Bimota , yes they are exclusive and have lots of nice bits on them and yes they are expensive, but they still have to have a reason to exist.
Now the DB8 in its last configuration with the multistrada 1198 motor beat most of the big 1000cc bikes in Performance bikes track test. So a 138bhp , light , sweet handling bike held its head up high against 200bhp machines.
So the man who paid 20K for it could also hold his head up in the PUB power/performance games against his CBR/R1/BMW mounted mates.
However , could a man that bought a BB3 do the same ??? Same power and weight as the BMW1000RR, OK lots of carbon and billet machining but also twice the price !!!! Now with no performance improvement or a racing pedigree said BB3 owner may appear as a bit of a overpaid trinket collector who goes for the shiny blingy stuff, who know nothing about bikes and with too much money to waste !!!! And no-one wants to be seen as that.

So YES Bimota's have to out perform the donor bikes or do something that mass production can not ( Tesi maybe) otherwise there is no reason to buy one.
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Jaguar



Joined: 15 Sep 2017
Posts: 53
Location: Albany NY

PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To an extent, I mildly disagree that the a Bimota needs to out perform the donor bike.
Lap times are not everything.

I would LOVE a less powerful bike that was stupid light.
Something that the market doesnt have right now.

But on the other hand I would rather Bimota NOT try and be the Koenigsegg of the world, but rather be the Spyker.
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Evilchicken0



Joined: 12 May 2010
Posts: 2723
Location: London

PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vort28 wrote:
Problem is if you buy a Bimota , yes they are exclusive and have lots of nice bits on them and yes they are expensive, but they still have to have a reason to exist.
Now the DB8 in its last configuration with the multistrada 1198 motor beat most of the big 1000cc bikes in Performance bikes track test. So a 138bhp , light , sweet handling bike held its head up high against 200bhp machines.
So the man who paid 20K for it could also hold his head up in the PUB power/performance games against his CBR/R1/BMW mounted mates.
However , could a man that bought a BB3 do the same ??? Same power and weight as the BMW1000RR, OK lots of carbon and billet machining but also twice the price !!!! Now with no performance improvement or a racing pedigree said BB3 owner may appear as a bit of a overpaid trinket collector who goes for the shiny blingy stuff, who know nothing about bikes and with too much money to waste !!!! And no-one wants to be seen as that.

So YES Bimota's have to out perform the donor bikes or do something that mass production can not ( Tesi maybe) otherwise there is no reason to buy one.

Yes the DB8 was good in the test, but that's Mallory park one short track. But anything above 600cc is pretty much academic on a road, which is generally where most of us ride. A BB3 against a DB8 or ZX10 or whatever is just willy waving so you might as well have an expensive willy to wave
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vort28



Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 1813
Location: Northwest , UK

PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Evilchicken0 wrote:

Yes the DB8 was good in the test, but that's Mallory park one short track. But anything above 600cc is pretty much academic on a road, which is generally where most of us ride. A BB3 against a DB8 or ZX10 or whatever is just willy waving so you might as well have an expensive willy to wave


I agree on most modern big bikes being over the top for the roads as they only really feel at home when they are 100mph+ , which is a bit pointless to the average man.

I also agree with Jaguar about usable power in an extremely light chassis.

Maybe that is Bimota's future , I know they tried Moto2 once before but again it was a half hearted effort and no-one bought their frames as they were afraid of part supply issues.
But a Triumph triple 765 in a mega frame , with good suspension and styling , who would'nt love that ??!!?? Shocked
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Evilchicken0



Joined: 12 May 2010
Posts: 2723
Location: London

PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vort28 wrote:

But a Triumph triple 765 in a mega frame , with good suspension and styling , who would'nt love that ??!!?? Shocked


An indifferent buying public ???
There was a bike done recently in the UK using a 675 engine, it looked good used a tube trellis and you could order it in a couple of configurations.

We've had theses conversations before though, back before the BB3 when we came to a general conclusion that a frame kit for an older engine would be interesting ... like a YB5 reboot. They could even design for something like the Fazer thou engine
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stockcar



Joined: 07 Apr 2011
Posts: 670
Location: in the shadow of the "angel"

PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

probably like Harris there is most likely more market appeal for a "classic" style frame kit or bike these days............
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stockcar



Joined: 07 Apr 2011
Posts: 670
Location: in the shadow of the "angel"

PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

probably like Harris there is most likely more market appeal for a "classic" style frame kit or bike these days............
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Jaguar



Joined: 15 Sep 2017
Posts: 53
Location: Albany NY

PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But how "classic" would you go?

People are always on the hunt for old special framed bikes.
But there are a fair number of them out there.
Also there are a fair number of places that will replicate one for you.

Look at what NYC Norton is doing.
Basically a brand new, top of the line, fast ass could be......Norton Seeley.

I do not feel Bimota would get much traction in this market.
Maybe if they just straight remade some of there own bikes.

Another run of HB3s? But in "kit" form?

Although, why do the same thing again?
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vort28



Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 1813
Location: Northwest , UK

PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Evilchicken0 wrote:
a frame kit for an older engine would be interesting ... like a YB5 reboot. They could even design for something like the Fazer thou engine


Not a bad idea, modern twist and all, plus a under utilized/cheap mill, in plentiful supply .
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Evilchicken0



Joined: 12 May 2010
Posts: 2723
Location: London

PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought you'd like it Smile

Bimota's recent frames are a trellis with billet plates simply do this for the new kit. Supply a rolling chassis, air box, linkpipe and bodywork options - the rest can be taken off the donor bike.
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Tirefriar



Joined: 18 Dec 2014
Posts: 464
Location: USA

PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back in 2000's I was involved in bringing a Russian vodka to the US market. One of most memorable meetings was with the #2 liquor distributor in the US. I won't bore anyone here with all the details of the conversation but one part stands out. I was asked what differentiated my product from the other brands on the market? I went into discussion of packaging, filtration,etc. The man listened politely and then said: "what should differentiate you from other brands is the amount of A&P (advertising and promo) budget and your marketing strategy" making abundantly clear that no matter how good the product is, it's nothing without strong financial backing.

With respect to Bimota, the main focus of the brand was to build a better product than what the engine supplier could produce. There is a consumer group out there willing to pay for the best of the best and that's what Bimota should represent. Going that route, the brand will become once again out of reach for the most but wasn't it that way before? The only to achieve that is to attract some serious coinage....
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vort28



Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 1813
Location: Northwest , UK

PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeap serious invetors with mega bucks to burn for 5yrs or so and then maybe look at making a profit but they got to promote and make people want the brand and aspire to it , make people feel special and they will pay what you ask.

Things that Bimota always promised but never delivered , unfortunately.
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MRLost



Joined: 27 Jun 2015
Posts: 16
Location: Cloudcuckooland

PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I cannot speak for other countries but the US requires considerable testing and the like to qualify for import. Safety, emissions, etc. Costs a bundle, takes time, royal pain in the ass but entirely unavoidable. One of the many reasons small manufacturers avoid the US market. Maybe China and India are different.
Kits are even worse. In addition to the above, getting them registered for street use - so issues surrounding ownership and thus taxability - are problematic. State registrars really don't like vehicles with odd VIN numbers they can't check on their computers because it smacks of vehicle theft. You used to be able to register a bike based on the engine SN but I don't believe you can do that anymore; not with a modern vehicle.
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barnmankit



Joined: 23 Nov 2014
Posts: 81
Location: Pyrenees, France

PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe, given the problems of engine supply, the future of Bimota is electric? After all that's the way things are more rapidly heading. Persuade someone like Elon Musk or James Dyson, or Fiat or anyone, to invest, then design a sublimely beautiful and exquisitely engineered high performance electric bike - even an electric Tesi - and get a major jump on the competition. Investing millions in developing ICE powered bikes is becoming fairly pointless.
Mark my words, within 10 years anyone pumping money into developing carbon fuel powered vehicles will be seen as idiots.
Maybe Bimota could even give an electric bike a soul?
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