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Re-Hello and fishing for any import expertise

 
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MrF



Joined: 09 Nov 2017
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:01 am    Post subject: Re-Hello and fishing for any import expertise Reply with quote

re-hello (I think I was on here way back anyway!) after many years.
I bought my YB8 in 2000, with a loan of my then new girlfriend's credit card and a promise to pay her back when I phoned her and she was in a pub with friends getting merry. It wasn't exactly the fire breathing beast I was expecting as my 750 turbo could run away from it with ease but I figured I could sort that out. It went for a short holiday with Phil Woods who won a early round of a british streetbike drag racing series with his 1000 exup based bike, before going on to ride the BigCC katana's and busa which is what he's better known for, and he did his magic on the carbs and exup timing and things and it came back transformed.
The girlfriend is now MrsF and we've got 2 kids growing up and had our 16th wedding anniversary this year. And really my Yb is part of the family story, maybe we only stayed together back then because I owed her the balance and paid her back every month, or was it because she displayed the ultimate trust and let her new impoverished boyfriend abuse her credit card for a motorbike Laughing

I've not been active in bimota circles as I tended to be more of a rider than a socialiser (although I used to be a member years ago of the enthusiast circle and met Glen and a few others a couple of times at shows).
More recently (well the past decade) I've kept it tucked away properly waiting for the right day to return. If my legs still bend enough to reach the rearsets properly that is.
During that period I moved to France, and since then she's been sat on stands in a corner of the workshop with the occasional start up while fighting the french import system. I had another bike that was impossible to import here (a blown gs750 special) but I've just last week loaded that into a friends van who was promised first refusal many years ago and it went to live back in the UK where at least it might see some use. I managed to deal with my kawasaki turbo import nightmare the same way a few years back (sold to a UK owner, and bought another one here though so I still have one).

So now my focus comes back to my poor YB, and its a shame to have it just hide away in the workshop permanently, I believe things should be enjoyed not permanently squirreled away, so time to make a grown up decision that its either the year it gets registered here or used or the year it gets sold. Seems a shame to turn it into a track only bike though, and I already have a race bike in a different genre (blown superturbo bar and car slick drag bike) which takes all my focus there.

I pinned lots of hope that the EU would force France to drop their 100hp limit, which was always the stated roadblock to it being imported, but finally last year after much campaigning by certain groups, they did, only to place a arbitary restriction that the bikes with more than 100 hp had to have ABS as a new requirement out of the blue. Even though the original 100hp restriction was removed because there was no provable link between power/speed and accident rates.

Ive also exhausted the FFVE route, I've used it for other vehicles (land rover forward control, and a SP370 amongst others) so I'm familiar of how it works but they state they will not cover a motorcycle of more than 80hp (I fell foul of this trying with another classic from my stable, a kawasaki turbo which when brand new had 5hp more than the DRIRE permitted, even though they were sold here as a current model) and this year the gov working in conjunction with the FFVE pushed up the requirement of minimum age for their classic vehicle schemes from 25 years old (which as a '92 my YB was just about to achieve) up to 30. So no chance to reduce the power to 80hp now with cams/carbs etc, and go for this route.

So, long shot, but anyone here who's been through this and who has any inspiration? I've been on the Bimota France forum, but their line is simply that its not possible to import certain models with a sticky on the forum helpfully listing which models aren't possible for buyers to be informed.
I don't want a different model or even another of the same model, I want this one because of its history with my family. Its personal!
I've seen bikes from the "impossible to register" list on the club site, out and about on the road and on leboncoin for sale with french plates, but every time I've tried to contact the owner or seller I just get blanked. Maybe its not done by completely legal means and they think I'm authority investigating or somenthing. There's always pm if this affects anyones response...

Its so annoying when the only real stumbling block hasn't been parts, or rarity, but simply awkward legal paperwork and immovable burecrats stopping fun.

So long rambling post, but re-hello.
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Gavin944888



Joined: 29 Jan 2014
Posts: 270
Location: Essex....way South of Scotland

PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello..........I do not have the answers for you, I am afraid to say but.

I have 2 seperate friends in France both with Ducati bikes
One is a 1988 851 and the other is a 2012 1200 Multistrada
....both above the 100 bhp and both have had to keep the bikes registered in the UK and trans shiop them back to the Uk for MOT ect.

Both tried in vain to import and find this as the only option...
apperantly the bike power is checked via a datbase if involved in a ccident and could rule the insurance nul and void...if over the 100 fiure.

They both take insurance out (fully comp) in the Uk and use a friendly contact in the UK as addrerss point
....unlikely to be stolen from the UK if in France

Probably not what you want to hear ...but best I can do.

And welcome to the group.

regards
Gavin
_________________
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MrF



Joined: 09 Nov 2017
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your reply, the yb is currently insured fully comp with a french company but I'd hate to test the legality of that cover in a accident situation and because there is no link up between insurance companies databases between Europe mainland and the UK systems, the green card can't be used to tax a UK registered vehicle so its basically being used as theft cover insurance and so she sleeps on the stands with no mot or tax as a result.

On a different a note, I think your friends multistrada 1200 comes with abs as a optional extra on the base but factory on some variants? if so, then with the recent legal changes to the law regarding 100hp limit it might now possible to import that to France through the normal import proceedure by fitting the abs module. The 851 is in the same situation as my yb though import-wise...
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barnmankit



Joined: 23 Nov 2014
Posts: 73
Location: Pyrenees, France

PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Mr F,
I've been in a very similar situation. I have 2 bikes here in France, both still on UK registrations. I rode my old 750 Bee-emm down several years ago and used her on my UK insurance until the mot ran out and the insurance became invalid. I then trawled the local brokers until I found one who was willing and helpful enough to insure the bike on UK plates and that's been the situation ever since. As you know, bikes do not require an mot test in France (but they must meet the obvious legal requirements and be safe).
This has been tested in an accident situation when a car reversed into me. The Gendarmes checked my papers and didn't question anything. The repairs were done in the local bike shop and the insurance paid up, again no problem.
For my Bimota DB2, I tried to register it in France with a Certificate of Conformity provided by Bimota (before they closed shop), but the Prefecture wouldn't recognise the COC provided by the factory as it wasn't like a COC they were used to. Ignorant bastards. F..k you, I thought.
So I took the COC and all the other documents to my insurance broker, explained the situation and they were happy to insure the bike, keeping photocopies of the COC and UK registration document.
So both bikes are insured with Allianz in France on English plates.
You will need a helpful broker and any proof that you can get that the bike conforms to European standards.
Hope this helps.
Kit
_________________
1998 Bimota DB2 edizione finale naked
1976 BMW R75/6 tractor
Challenge Seiran recumbent bicycle
Numerous other bicycles

"We're each given one small grain of madness - if we lose it, we're nothing." Robin Williams
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MrF



Joined: 09 Nov 2017
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its already currently insured in France by Allianz, though my current classic insurers will only put it on my classics policy if its going to be french immatriculated in the next 3 months, so it has to have a seperate insurance policy to the rest of my fleet burning money for no real benefit.

I've also got experience of a claim in a UK plated vehicle in France with a French insurance company. Like you the gendarmes weren't particulary interested in the origins of the vehicle, I had been the owner on the v5c, it had a day old control technique and I had in hand a CoC for it and was due to visit the prefecture to complete the process the next day, they checked its paperwork & took it away for technical inspection post accident as people were injured in the accident and the report came back as being fit to drive from their view with no offenses commited and the vehicle released.
Only here my experiences with the insurance company strongly different to yours and they were a complete nightmare (maybe because it was them on the hook for the claim, not another insurance co), eventually rejecting the entire claim under a technicality about a detail on conformance identified by their "expert", and which didn't concern the actual inspections it had already undergone and was of no direct relevance to the circumstances, bolstered by some claim of the events leading to the accident which were complete fantasy and not supported by basic laws of physics.
Ultimately a separate personal drivers insurance policy I took out have covered my medical expenses and paid compensation to my passenger who was also injured in the accident, but I've never recieved a cent from the actual insurance who should have picked up the bill towards this, recovery or repair of my vehicle and its still sat in the corner of the barn looking sorry for itself waiting for me to get round to re-restoring it.

In light of that unpleasant brush with insurance companies here, I'd like to do this the correct (or at least quasi legal) way, the rest of my bikes all have a valid carte grise now.
I've been through the individual conformance with no supporting documentation from the builder registration route with a motorhome, and although it was painful with extra gas inspections and detailed chassis plans needing drawing it was do-able, but they accepted the paperwork for the base fiat ducato so that was only a partial conformance.

I cant find anyone thats actually undertaken this process for a bike to try and get detail on what needs doing for that, and thats also what I'm about fishing for.
Of course I tried to contact Paradise and Moto Renard, and both haven't even bothered to respond. Certainly a low cost way to find out where next to buy a classic from anyway!
Those YB8/YB11 etc you see on leboncoin have to have got into the system somehow, but I'll be damned if I can find out how.
It used to be the old carte grise typ originale was for registering specials and limited production runs, but a end was put to that scheme a few years back and nothing replaced it. But non kit Moto Martin and other specials have a type "originale" on the carte grise. If thats what these bimota's here are registered as, then I might have a route to make that happen still.
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barnmankit



Joined: 23 Nov 2014
Posts: 73
Location: Pyrenees, France

PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Funny isn't it? I thought the whole idea of insurance was to give us peace of mind and the knowledge that after all those years of paying into the system we would be looked after when things went pear shaped. How wrong we are! All it does is cause us more stress in an already stressful time by finding all sorts of outrageous reasons not to pay, usually based on minor technicalities. If we, as human beings, tried to worm our way out of all our misdemeanours like this we would rightly be the objects of sneering, anger and ridicule, and probably ostracised from society. One rule for us, one rule for them, hey?
You're right, I'm sure the only reason I had no problems was because someone else's insurance was paying.
Let us know how you get on. Where are you by the way?
_________________
1998 Bimota DB2 edizione finale naked
1976 BMW R75/6 tractor
Challenge Seiran recumbent bicycle
Numerous other bicycles

"We're each given one small grain of madness - if we lose it, we're nothing." Robin Williams
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MrF



Joined: 09 Nov 2017
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used to work in a motorcycle repair workshop many many moons ago, and we dealt with the local area assessors for insurance repairs and that alone has scarred me for life with a deep mistrust of their methods and objectives.

I'm "up" in Indre on the border with the Limousin.

I think the next step might be for someone to have a chat with the DRIRE about the total conformity option and what we might need to do.
Meanwhile I'm waking it up from its sleep and making sure its ready to roll should I suddenly find a door opening, there's a few bits and bobs to do and no doubt more will appear when its stripped down for a proper inspection.
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Admin
Site Admin


Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Posts: 361
Location: Stafford, UK

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

I see Woody occasionally. A good guy.

From memory the French market FZR1000 were quite heavily restricted in the cylinder head. A couple of weeks ago I saw a Facebook message with pictures comparing them.

Sorry, no real help but good luck

All the best

Katy
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MrF



Joined: 09 Nov 2017
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, at the time when he did the work he asked that I gave him first refusal if I ever sold it after taking it out for a test ride, I bet he's forgotten about that as it was at least 16 years ago now.

The issue with the power is one of stupid conformity and paperwork. Its easy to loose 50 hp to get it under the limit, but then it becomes "modified from original type", so unless the original fabricant has supplied and fitted the restriction then the original type documentation no longer covers it. However, in this case neither the original manufacturer nor their representative from the period exist to sell that approved restriction kit, in fact they dont exist to issue any sort of conformity of the type, not even a partial one it seems.
I had the same issue with my kawasaki turbo, kawasaki france sold them here as 106hp, but the power limit was introduced after the model was sold, so they had no restrictor kit available but they worked from the official records of type. I offered to make it under the limit but in reality it probably had long since lost 6hp from wear anyway but got the above issue quoted to me by the official. Kawasaki France couldnt give me a conformity cert as it no longer conformed to regs as the power limit is applied to all imports regardless of age and I ended up selling it back in the UK and buying another one here that already had a carte grise.
I can't do that with my YB. C'est la vie here I'm afraid, burecracy is a art form.
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