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Gavin944888
Joined: 29 Jan 2014
Posts: 572
Location: Essex....way South of Scotland
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 Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:06 pm Post subject: V Due engine (full fat on carbs) |
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Ladies and gentlemen,
I need assistance regarding the V Due engine
Having nothing better to do but start a build(somewhat long term) utilising the V Due engine,
I plan to use Lectron carbs if possible or other smart carbs.
Anyone out there with experience of the VDue engine and the fitment of totally nonstandard parts mainly carbs and expansion chambers.
...I do not mean the usual aftermarket stuff.....Jolly pipes etc....I mean custom fabricated
Likewise......anyone ran without the airbox or only socks or pods rather than the fairing hidden filters...
I admit.....this is a project of folly...but so was the DB 7-11 supercharger.
Any advice greatly appreciated
Regards
Gavin the Scottish engineer
_________________
On an Island in the River Thames!
Cagiva Elefant 888/955 & adventure sidecar
Cagiva Elefant 999r engined
Cagiva BIMOTA Motard Concept
BIMOTA DB9 (with DB11 rear-end)
BIMOTA DB7-11 VLX MULE (build coming to an end)
BIMOTA DB11 VLX Supercharger |
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Weed
Joined: 29 Dec 2013
Posts: 250
Location: Perth Australia
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| Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Trev45 will be your man. Mine are direct injected |
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brian
Joined: 22 Aug 2011
Posts: 3790
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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Sounds like another interesting project Gavin’s! I’m absolutely no help to you sorry 
_________________
'99 DB4 #104, '96 SB6 #1165, '94 DB2 J #652, '99 DB4 #088, '08 VTX1800, '93 ZXR750R M1, '95 ZXR750, '95 ZXR750 Race Bike, '94 CBR400rr NC29 Race Bike, '94 CB250, '49 BSA C10 250, '61 BSA A10 650, '89 ZXR750, '91 Ducati 851 |
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2bims
Joined: 03 Apr 2010
Posts: 7295
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| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 1:35 am Post subject: |
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| brian wrote: |
| Sounds like another interesting project Gavin’s! I’m absolutely no help to you sorry |
Say it like it is ay Brian.....
Lectrons…..no personal knowledge,,,,but shared knowledge gained from the KDX and KX riders Facebook pages (theres 2 of them) that I peruse and add to where I can....All the KDX's and KX's on there run on premix so no messing around with oil tanks or pumps...is this the way you may intend on going?
Everyone that has fitted them has raved about them for simplicity in design and greater low down torque and better longer power range...with the added advantage of smaller size....but they all adapt the albeit small closed airbox fitted on the KDX and KX bikes...some folk have hybrids kitted out with KX500 motors and lectrons…..All also rave about the massive increased fuel range...up to 50% better efficiency on fuel range which is handy on a KDX as they only fit a 2 gallon tank...There is a US company that offers a increased 2.5 gallon tank...or extra 1 gallon tanks that link to the standard and are mounted behind the front headlight unit...which is an option on the cagiva supercity....as,,,,yup...with that bike being designed as a 125cc commuter learner type bike...it also only has a 2 gallon tank fitted...and thus if kept standard but with a vdue engine running on standard dellortos that Piero fits...means an average tank range of just 30-35miles....Yikes.....the loss of tank volume due to adding 2-stroke oil is fairly minimal as after running in the standard oil tank on a vdue can run from full to empty after about 1000miles...so the fuel/oil ratio must be pretty great...Kawasaki recommend 33:1..so you would have to look at the vdue specs or talk to piero what he thinks the ratio should be
This evidently you need to know...not just to add oil...but to tell Lectron also...as they jet and design each lectron sold to the spec of the bike.....KDX and KX kawasakis come in at 175cc, 200cc, 220cc, 250cc, 450cc and 500cc...they are intended as "plug and play"...bolt on and connect the fuel line...and throttle cable also
Price Is an issue....they reckon 600 per carb...I cant recall but think thats in Dollars,,,,there is another US company also making a similar product...I cant recall its name but will find out the other alternative....as the engines are supposed to be run in...you may need 2 sets of jets and needles..as Oil/fule ratio is different for the first 1000kms...after which normally on a vdue the oil pump is turned well down..and all the oil splurge and misting magically disappears,,,,prior to turning down the oil mix.....you will not have any friends that follow you on a bike....as their bike, themselves and their visor will get a liberal soaking of un expended 2 stroke oil
I'd suggest contacting lectron direct...they appear to be a progressive and helpful company....they'll think you are nuts...but they are American so should be bang up for it.... |
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Gavin944888
Joined: 29 Jan 2014
Posts: 572
Location: Essex....way South of Scotland
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| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 7:31 am Post subject: |
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Thanks.......Lectron and Smart carbs use no needles or jets.....2 less things to worry about.
They use an unique meter rod and flow rate ......it is meant to supply what is needed.
Premix is not an issue and each carb is made to your spec...within reason.
Key issues are bore stroke disc or reed and compression ratio.
From there on...a person in a dirty white coat with a packet of miniature cigars makes the correct ratio for you dream machine.
I think I need to talk to Ady, Trevor from Oz and probably BimotaNige.
These individuals seem to have played about with the VDue in its many forms and added some unique individual takes on their project.
As mentioned ....it is a long term project...but I am trying to get the parts to match the image
.....and the carbs/filters positioning will dictate the final frame layout.
Those mentioned ....and any others ...please pipe up..as they say
Regard
Gavin
_________________
On an Island in the River Thames!
Cagiva Elefant 888/955 & adventure sidecar
Cagiva Elefant 999r engined
Cagiva BIMOTA Motard Concept
BIMOTA DB9 (with DB11 rear-end)
BIMOTA DB7-11 VLX MULE (build coming to an end)
BIMOTA DB11 VLX Supercharger |
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mick
Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 48
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| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 10:24 am Post subject: |
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| Check out Gardner carbs, used them on a 500 Maxton Kawasaki with great success.......18 wins in its first season ! |
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trev45
Joined: 15 Jun 2011
Posts: 450
Location: Sydney Australia
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| Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:06 am Post subject: |
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Love it Gavin
Lectron work never used them on a VDUE but have on other bikes
I have a set of pipe made by Brian Turffrey to try but should work
he is a smart man
For air filters tried standed air box no air box and mesh covers all worked
the air box is a gain you will go up about two mains ruffly
What are you thinking of doing ?
Cheers Trev |
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2bims
Joined: 03 Apr 2010
Posts: 7295
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| Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:39 am Post subject: |
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| trev45 wrote: |
Love it Gavin
What are you thinking of doing ?
Cheers Trev |
Check out the "idea" on here that hes planning....the mans "completely nuts"...but the worlds a better place for it
http://www.bimotaforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=1814&start=390 |
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Gavin944888
Joined: 29 Jan 2014
Posts: 572
Location: Essex....way South of Scotland
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| Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2019 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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Trev45
Well, the basic idea follows a Cagiva/Bimota engined run about that Mr Tamburini is alleged to have pennned whilst at Cagiva R&D
He designed the Cagiva Supercity as well as the Cagiva Mito and I thought I explore the thoughts of the VDue engine in the Chassis based on a Supercity
Basic idea is a stretched and beefed up frame ...some 45mm rather than the 40mm forks....the Bimota VDue swing arm with the expansion chambers passing as per their the VDue and some smart carbs with no jets ....probably Lectron....they have been contacted and hopefully can produce something suitable.
I have to fabricate/machine the inlet manifolds for the carb positioning and I am guessing at pods or socks as filters.
Would love to explore opinions regarding pipe fabricators...but this is so long term it will ne 2020...before any wheels turn
But I could do with some input on engines setting etc......last 2stroke was 1990 and that was a much modded GT 750 triple in a Dresda frame ......Aberdeen to Marseille to watch the Bol’Dor
Regrds
Gavin
_________________
On an Island in the River Thames!
Cagiva Elefant 888/955 & adventure sidecar
Cagiva Elefant 999r engined
Cagiva BIMOTA Motard Concept
BIMOTA DB9 (with DB11 rear-end)
BIMOTA DB7-11 VLX MULE (build coming to an end)
BIMOTA DB11 VLX Supercharger |
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Gavin944888
Joined: 29 Jan 2014
Posts: 572
Location: Essex....way South of Scotland
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| Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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Trev45
I thought Brian Turfrey was retired...but it seems he is not.
How difficult was it to make contact with him and buy the pipes.?
Is he selling to public or trade ...or is it old racers with fingers missing only?
...likewise anyone out there with pipes willing to sell......or rent
....rental for 2- 3 months just so I can get some patterns made
....what is the worst that can happen.....I leave leave a reasonable deposit.
My fabricator Mr Swarbrick no longer does actual pipe calculations and needs something to copy ....or modify...so any unloved pipes or any available to act as a model
Surely someone out there can assist ..I will not actually be keeping the pipes standard....so any Bad fitting handbuilt japanese titainium spannies willl be looked after and put to good use
Regards
Gavin
_________________
On an Island in the River Thames!
Cagiva Elefant 888/955 & adventure sidecar
Cagiva Elefant 999r engined
Cagiva BIMOTA Motard Concept
BIMOTA DB9 (with DB11 rear-end)
BIMOTA DB7-11 VLX MULE (build coming to an end)
BIMOTA DB11 VLX Supercharger |
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2bims
Joined: 03 Apr 2010
Posts: 7295
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| Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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Uuuhmmmmmmmmm…..Standard cans with underseat silencers initial cans with side slung double barrel shotgun cans...or Jolly Moto expansion system without the primary silencers and just the end carbon end cans???
I am still of the strongest intention to put my Vdue back on the road this year...and please...I dont want to stop anyone else from assisting Gavin if they can??
I have to refresh my carbs as the float bowl O rings aren't nitrile and they pish petrol out when the bikes not running ...AND...I still have to take the seat unit off and remove the entire exhaust system so that I can clean off the rust/tarnish (standard jolly motos are made of the most rubbish quality steel and corrode at the slightest whiff of H20.....both exercises I can only carry out when the weather turns brighter and drier...as I have to work outside due to space restrictions inside...both house and garage......So.….once removed I could lend them...but collection and return would have to be yours...….and I suppose if removed I could run around on something different whilst they are copied.....This week is out as I'm still sorting post funeral issues, wills, estates transfers etc...and next week is also out....as I'm prepping bikes for the forthcoming Manchester Bike show....Any use to you?....cleaning of my pipes is a mere days task...then I would be high temp lacquering them for continued corrosion protection...but I also need 15 degrees temp or higher to do this...and that it sure aint up here in Mcr |
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2bims
Joined: 03 Apr 2010
Posts: 7295
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| Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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double
Last edited by 2bims on Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:04 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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who
Joined: 10 Nov 2010
Posts: 402
Location: Melbourne Australia
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| Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:38 am Post subject: |
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| So the lectrons will work on 2T? I've been eyeing off some for a project. |
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Gavin944888
Joined: 29 Jan 2014
Posts: 572
Location: Essex....way South of Scotland
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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hello............YES LECTRON are happy to help and they build to a spec to suit....but they have no spec. other SMART carbs are available but back up in the UK is a bit limited.
Therefore I need to give them what other folk are using along with the Bore/Stroke/tune level ect.
So....I now need from the forum
What carbs are you runnning and at what settings...mm500 information was an interesting read. But please chip in with the OEM carb fitment model type.
Likewise anyone with any specific ignition system choice for the carbed model......from experience..I know custom built means time and money.
Pipe manufacture has been determined: Tony Green Pipes (SWINDON) will make to suit the weird frame and will use the Jolly Moto as a guide after an rather nice lady in Italy sold me some.
many thanks
Gavin
_________________
On an Island in the River Thames!
Cagiva Elefant 888/955 & adventure sidecar
Cagiva Elefant 999r engined
Cagiva BIMOTA Motard Concept
BIMOTA DB9 (with DB11 rear-end)
BIMOTA DB7-11 VLX MULE (build coming to an end)
BIMOTA DB11 VLX Supercharger |
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JackJabba
Joined: 19 Jul 2016
Posts: 85
Location: UK
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| Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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For exhausts I would use Kenny at Two Stroke Addicts or Mick Abbey. Both do the calculations and both make the pipes to fit the actual bike. Micks pipes are mild steel and weigh feck all, Kenny does pipes in Stainless. You need to decide what power you want to make and where you want it.
I have Mikuni 38TMX carbs on mine and a programmable Zeeltronic Ignition and power valve controller. Power delivery is is very good through the whole rev range. Running with Kevlar airboxes. |
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