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Ethanol Fuel
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Jaguar



Joined: 15 Sep 2017
Posts: 138
Location: Albany NY

PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:38 pm    Post subject: Ethanol Fuel Reply with quote

I know it is something to be avoided, if possible.

BUT

How do the tanks on Bimota hold up to the modern fuels?
Specifically asking about my new SB6R.

Thanks
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Jonny B Bad



Joined: 05 Dec 2009
Posts: 458
Location: NE London

PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:43 pm    Post subject: Ethanol Reply with quote

The quick answer is ďbadlyĒ! The ethanol absorbs water, as we know & the combined mixture, which is acidic, sinks to the bottom of the tank, where it starts eating away at the tank. As the fuel passes through the carbs it deposits a paste in the throat of the carb, downstream of the throttle, which
blocks the bypass holes and makes for erratic idling. The tank also starts to swell, as it absorbs the ethanol/water, so that it becomes a struggle to put the carbon battery cover back on.

Needless to say, itís important to use an additive that addresses the worst effects of ethanol, particularly if the bike sits for a few weeks between outings.
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Jonny B Bad



Joined: 05 Dec 2009
Posts: 458
Location: NE London

PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:43 pm    Post subject: Ethanol Reply with quote

The quick answer is ďbadlyĒ! The ethanol absorbs water, as we know & the combined mixture, which is acidic, sinks to the bottom of the tank, where it starts eating away at the tank. As the fuel passes through the carbs it deposits a paste in the throat of the carb, downstream of the throttle, which
blocks the bypass holes and makes for erratic idling. The tank also starts to swell, as it absorbs the ethanol/water, so that it becomes a struggle to put the carbon battery cover back on.

Needless to say, itís important to use an additive that addresses the worst effects of ethanol, particularly if the bike sits for a few weeks between outings.
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Ray916MN



Joined: 29 Apr 2015
Posts: 62
Location: Orono, MN

PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 3:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

unlike Ducati plastic tanks (or for that matter Aprilia), the Acerbis produced plastic tanks on Bimotas seem to tolerate ethanol reasonably well. They seem to perform like dirtbike tanks and don't swell or distort as best as I can tell.
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2bims



Joined: 03 Apr 2010
Posts: 6553

PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yay and Nay to that Ray.....All of my "period" Bimotas....Db1...DB2...DB4 are all Ascerbis and not been a problem......always used 97 or 99 grade fuel...BUT...the "E5" and "E10" stickers have appeared all over my usual petrol station pumps...meaning 5% and 10% by volume ethanol.....EU directives by them over here now...

Later stuff...DB5/6/7 etc...I havent had issues with either...BUT....one friend removed his DB6 tank over winter and left it full of fuel...possibly cheap fuel...it wouldn't fit the mounts at the back when he tried to put it back on...it had swelled in length around half an inch....He said "What do I do?"....drain it...leave off back vented and hopefully...just hopefully....it will shrink back.....Ducati tech boys are advising this on the latest Ducatis already...as its happening to the latest new batch of Ducs also....
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GeeKay



Joined: 29 May 2009
Posts: 1745
Location: West Yorkshire

PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

2bims wrote:


Later stuff...DB5/6/7 etc...I havent had issues with either


I seem to remember your DB6 acquiring a half-inch gap between seat front and rear of tank that wasn't there when you purchased it?

My DB3 "boot lid" atop the fuel cell constantly needed the lock latch shimming to ensure it would actually lock - when I sold it on it had 4 extra washers behind the latch to allow the locking arm to reach it. When I purchased it the latch bolted straight to the cell and locked OK.
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v-pilot



Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 78
Location: Rexford NY

PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Acerbis tanks and probably all plastic tanks are made of Nylon 7 (polyheptanamide), which is hygroscopic. I know my aprilia tanks are. Moto Guzzi and Ducati are as well. The ethanol in the gas is hygroscopic and absorbs water from the air. That water can phase separate on the bottom and will be absorbed by the tank causing it to expand. It can also absorb the water from the fuel before phase separation occurs. It is possible for the tank to return to normal or close to it by removing it, empty, to a warm dry place for a time.
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Tirefriar



Joined: 18 Dec 2014
Posts: 610
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had the tank on the YB10 professionally sealed at GTL in North Hollywood. Here's the link: http://www.gastanklining.com/gas-tank-lining-contact.html

I also use Sta-bil in all my bikes.
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Quadrasuarass



Joined: 23 Aug 2013
Posts: 66
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the info V Pilot. My DB1 tank appeared to go 'soft" at the bottom after the fuel blends were changed over here and ethanol plus toluene was introduced in excessive amounts until the legislators got their act together and mandated max limits for both. Not before there were a number of engine bay fires in older cars and bikes as manifold rubbers and the like broke down under the chemical attack.

Your explanation makes sense, the tank went soft at the bottom then became firm again once removed from the bike and dried out. The H2O absorption and subsequent drying out would explain that.
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Quadrasuarass



Joined: 23 Aug 2013
Posts: 66
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the info V Pilot. My DB1 tank appeared to go 'soft" at the bottom after the fuel blends were changed over here and ethanol plus toluene was introduced in excessive amounts until the legislators got their act together and mandated max limits for both. Not before there were a number of engine bay fires in older cars and bikes as manifold rubbers and the like broke down under the chemical attack.

Your explanation makes sense, the tank went soft at the bottom then became firm again once removed from the bike and dried out. The H2O absorption and subsequent drying out would explain that.
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Desmo_Demon



Joined: 19 Sep 2011
Posts: 238
Location: Easley, SC, USA

PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I absolutely HATE ethanol fuels! Evil or Very Mad
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Jonny B Bad



Joined: 05 Dec 2009
Posts: 458
Location: NE London

PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:01 pm    Post subject: Ethanol Reply with quote

Seconded Evil or Very Mad
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PaulDB2



Joined: 26 Apr 2014
Posts: 299
Location: Manchester

PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anybody tried this system?
http://www.ethanil.co.uk/
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Jonny B Bad



Joined: 05 Dec 2009
Posts: 458
Location: NE London

PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:07 pm    Post subject: Ethanol Reply with quote

That kit exploits a sound idea and the.mixing vessel and dispensing tap work well. The difficult bit is buying a 20 ltr Jerry can that will pour petrol into the mixing vessel and into the bike, without sloshing half of it over your Hushpuppies, with a measuring scale that can be clearly seen, at a reasonable cost.

The other thing is that E5 means that the petrol can contain up to 5% ethanol. But the one time I used this kit, I found that in fact the E5 I was decanting had no discernible quantity of ethanol in it! Ruined Hushpuppies & nothing to show for it!

With E5, the logistics of this kit mean Iíll probably stick with a fuel additive for the time being. But if 10% ethanol becomes the norm, Iíll go back to this kit, after having invested in a quality Jerry can.
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Ray916MN



Joined: 29 Apr 2015
Posts: 62
Location: Orono, MN

PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

v-pilot wrote:
The Acerbis tanks and probably all plastic tanks are made of Nylon 7 (polyheptanamide), which is hygroscopic. ....


I don't believe all plastic tanks are made of the same materials. My experience tells me that tanks which are made to be painted are different than tanks which are color impregnated and not intended to be painted. My experience is my dirtbike tanks don't care what you put in them. I run them with oxy gas all the time and let them sit with oxy gas without a problem. All dirtbikes pretty much run plastic tanks and you don't see dirtbike riders being careful to use non-oxy gas to avoid gas tank problems.

The reason I suspect the Acerbis tanks which are used under tank covers are not susceptible to alcohol the same way my Ducati or Aprilia or painted Bimota tanks are is because, the black Acerbis tanks don't look like the nylon in the other tanks. They look like black dirtbike tanks. If they were all made of the same material, I'd expect them to all look the same inside.

I don't tempt fate with the black Acerbis tanks on my Bimotas mainly because the bikes are carbed and I want the stability of non-oxy gas in these bikes to minimize potential carb problems, but I suspect,
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