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SB8R fuelling sorted
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daotoys1



Joined: 29 Feb 2008
Posts: 202

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nflpats wrote:
I will be speaking with Dusty at Dyno Jet about installing and mapping a Power Commander III for the SB8R. He did a great job with my MV several years ago. They are only 10 miles from my house and next week I will be riding my bike over there to TRY and convince him to map one for our bikes. Let me know if anyone is interested in buying a PCIII however it will be mapped for a full Moto Corse system. I dont have the stock cans anymore. For those who don't know, Dyno Jet is the makers of the Power Commanders.



Ive never had a Power Commander on a bike before, but I am familiar with how they work.

Am I wrong? But I have always thought that if you get the correct Power Commander that fits all of your bikes connections, that any Dyno Jet Dyno shop can put your bike onto their Dyno and tune the Power Commander to your bike based on how you have the bike set up ( for example; having an upgraded exhaust vs a OEM one.....).....

If this is correct, isnt it just a matter of getting the correct Power Commander to fit the BIMOTA SB8R/SB8RS????

I ask this because in Denver not to far from me is a Dyno Jet Dyno shop that does these individual Power Commander set ups and tuning.

Isnt this a better way to go than getting a Power Commander that is already mapped to a bike owned by someone else. Even if the bikes were set up the same, the bikes will have individual differences, and shouldnt the Power Commander also be tuned for your particular climate and altitude?

I welcome anyone to educate me on this, so please share your thought on this topic.

thanks
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Brad



Joined: 11 Aug 2010
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:53 pm    Post subject: Custom mapping Reply with quote

A good Power Commander tuning centre should be able to make a map suitable for your application depending on the bike you have.
Ultimately each bike is slightly different and has different fuelling requirements.
Its possible should you like a smooth drive out of corners to have trailing throttle sections richer for example and on the flip side if you want the throttle response to be aggressive have it slightly leaner.
Hondas have extremely rich trailing/closed throttle sections for smooth less aggressive throttle responses ,and can be improved significantly when tuned correctly in these areas. Laughing
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nflpats



Joined: 15 Feb 2009
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

daotoys1 wrote:
nflpats wrote:
I will be speaking with Dusty at Dyno Jet about installing and mapping a Power Commander III for the SB8R. He did a great job with my MV several years ago. They are only 10 miles from my house and next week I will be riding my bike over there to TRY and convince him to map one for our bikes. Let me know if anyone is interested in buying a PCIII however it will be mapped for a full Moto Corse system. I dont have the stock cans anymore. For those who don't know, Dyno Jet is the makers of the Power Commanders.



Ive never had a Power Commander on a bike before, but I am familiar with how they work.

Am I wrong? But I have always thought that if you get the correct Power Commander that fits all of your bikes connections, that any Dyno Jet Dyno shop can put your bike onto their Dyno and tune the Power Commander to your bike based on how you have the bike set up ( for example; having an upgraded exhaust vs a OEM one.....).....

If this is correct, isnt it just a matter of getting the correct Power Commander to fit the BIMOTA SB8R/SB8RS????

I ask this because in Denver not to far from me is a Dyno Jet Dyno shop that does these individual Power Commander set ups and tuning.

Isnt this a better way to go than getting a Power Commander that is already mapped to a bike owned by someone else. Even if the bikes were set up the same, the bikes will have individual differences, and shouldnt the Power Commander also be tuned for your particular climate and altitude?

I welcome anyone to educate me on this, so please share your thought on this topic.

thanks


That is correct. I plan to have Dyno Jet map the bike to my specification such as the mods that I have. It will be mapped for a full Moto Corse exhaust so if anyone has a full system Moto Corse exhaust then the PCIII that is programmed for my bike will work with theirs. I am sure that the modified stock exhaust would not be much different mapping.
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zombie



Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 272
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

>>>The air scoops should make the air more dense at high speed as the air box is properly sealed - so there should be some real positive air pressure in the air box especially over 100mph.
In theory you would need to aim for a slightly richer mix at speed to compensate for this. Can't really do this on the rolling road. Having said that I can't see your original maps showing any increase in fuel-air ratio as the engine speed increases.
<<

..........just found out that there is an air pressure sensor in the SB8R air box. This should take care of extra fuel requirements when the ram intakes are working. Not sure how much extra power the ram air buys anyone got any guesses?
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GeeKay



Joined: 29 May 2009
Posts: 1767
Location: West Yorkshire

PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My guess is that ram air (pressurising the airbox) acts as a (very) basic form of supercharging, but as you correctly state, as the true conditions can't be replicated on the dyno, it's all down to guesswork. This was a topic oft discussed on the Hayabusa forums but nobody could pin an actual figure on it.
Having said that, the SB8's airbox isn't very well designed for ram air - ideally there should be a series of baffles to help "densify" the incoming charge.
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Brad



Joined: 11 Aug 2010
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 7:26 pm    Post subject: air fuel Reply with quote

The Suzuki's unusually increase fueling based against gear position.The Inlet Air Pressure sensor has no contirbution at high throttle openings.Dyno operators like DSD have a lot of experience on top speed/flyer bikes they will set the air fuel ratio at between 12.8-13.0:1 this has been found to be the best compromise.
Dyno's that attempt to raise air pressure by throwing in air at the front struggle due to the tailwind/cross wind situations that can be found on the road.Dyno's will get you close though if they know what they're doing. Cool
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mortsta



Joined: 30 May 2008
Posts: 61

PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GeeKay wrote:
My guess is that ram air (pressurising the airbox) acts as a (very) basic form of supercharging, but as you correctly state, as the true conditions can't be replicated on the dyno, it's all down to guesswork. This was a topic oft discussed on the Hayabusa forums but nobody could pin an actual figure on it.
Having said that, the SB8's airbox isn't very well designed for ram air - ideally there should be a series of baffles to help "densify" the incoming charge.

hmmmm interesting...
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sb6rdaz



Joined: 23 Nov 2010
Posts: 124
Location: Burton-upon-Trent

PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ram air is largely a very mis-understood concept. The actual gains from ram air are quite small, and can be mainly ruled out on a dyno. Once the airbox hits 2-3psi internal pressure, the air in the inlet tracts leading to the airbox backs up, and the air simply spills over the front of the ducts and around the fairing with the rest of the air. Running rich mixtures at high rpm tends to do nothing other than throw fuel away and rob power.
I remember Yamaha staking wild claims on massive gains from the R6 when it was launched of their Ram-air giving 10bhp or something altogether ridiculous. I also remember a dyno shop or 2 trying to replicate it with huge fans with big wind speeds, that failed to give anything but a couple of bhp which could more likely be down to variences between rollers/calibration of the dynos themselves.
Basically, any bike will work its best in my humble one, with as larger airbox as possible, full of still undisturbed air, at as higher pressure as praticality and physics will allow.
The graphs of the SB8 show how poor the stock fuelling is, but that is not limited to Bimota. Most major manufacturers bikes are much the same, tho to a slightly lesser degree.
Be carefull putting Powercommanders on bike they were not intended for, as the internal zero values for each Powercommander, vary for each bike. A zero value is not what it seems! This of course is negated if it is custom mapped, as the map produced will allow for any differences. And really is the only way to go with Powercommanders, as they only really come into their own when mapped to the individual bike. All things are not equal has never been so true. Once you have your head aroung the ram-air and Powercommander concept, it's all a hoot to be involved with.
Bit said, box put away,
Daz.
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mortsta



Joined: 30 May 2008
Posts: 61

PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for that daz...we did a recent run to dorrigo see pix, and when we fuelled up at the same stopping point my sb8r was taking some 3 to 4 liters more than my mates apprillia mille...and we were hooting along at the same speed!!
explain that??
morty
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sb6rdaz



Joined: 23 Nov 2010
Posts: 124
Location: Burton-upon-Trent

PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not much to explain really there. 2 completely different motors, no doubt running differnet gearing, differnet configuration, different engine management, different weights, different aerodynamics, the list goes on. Now what would really take some beating was if both bikes used exactly the same amount of fuel between stops!
Simples, enjoy! Very Happy
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SB8R Tuner



Joined: 29 Nov 2010
Posts: 83

PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello All!

To answer your question about why you used so much more fuel than your bud can be found in the craaaaapy tuning job Microtec did on the SB8R. From what I understand, when Bimota was building the SB8R they also had their hands full with the Vdue so they farmed out the tuning to Microtec. There are one of two maps that could be programed in your ECU. One from the factory or one that was developed later on. They both suck!! In my opinion! The injectors are also very inefficient, so that does not help either. I have all the software needed to reprogram the factory ecu and have spent over a year and over 100 hours on the dyno to get the bike to run correctly. As a friend told me, who has had several SB8R's, if you can get it too run like a Ducati you will have worked a miracle. My bike cranks and runs better than a Ducati and gets over 35MPG doing it. If anyone has any questions about getting their bike to run correcrly shoot me a pm.

Have a great Ride!!
Chris
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