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SB8R Tuner
Joined: 29 Nov 2010 Posts: 83
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:53 pm Post subject: SB8R ECU Tuning |
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Are there any SB8R owners that are not happy with the way their bike runs? Let this thread be about how the bike runs and acts. Not only at half throttle or WOT, but everywhere. How does your bike start? Does it foul plugs if you let it warm up to long? Tell me about your problems and let's get your bike to be a joy too ride. I have all the factory software and knowledge to reprogram the ECU. |
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Brad
Joined: 11 Aug 2010 Posts: 46
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 7:26 pm Post subject: mapping |
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Are they that bad? |
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GeeKay
Joined: 29 May 2009 Posts: 1767 Location: West Yorkshire
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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Yes! |
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oily
Joined: 05 Apr 2008 Posts: 4788 Location: worcestershire
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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Twice I've nearly bought one over the past 18 months, always wanted one.
Now I've read your extensive post Garry ( ) I'm quite relived I didn't |
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Evilchicken0
Joined: 12 May 2010 Posts: 2996 Location: London
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Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 10:09 am Post subject: |
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They just need a power commander and remap it's not really rocket science. If the tuner has experience with them it's better but as long there's a base map the dyno system and software can do the rest.
I reckon Bimota fancied the SB8 as a team endurance racer. they designed them to run in line astern the big air intakes catching the unburnt petrol from the bike in front and in turn feeding the bike to the rear. Once in a while they change position or they form up behind a tanker for inflight refuelling .....
You guys need to appreciate the subleties of the design _________________ Don't read everything you believe |
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oily
Joined: 05 Apr 2008 Posts: 4788 Location: worcestershire
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Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 10:30 am Post subject: |
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Evilchicken0 wrote: |
I reckon Bimota fancied the SB8 as a team endurance racer. they designed them to run in line astern the big air intakes catching the unburnt petrol from the bike in front and in turn feeding the bike to the rear. Once in a while they change position or they form up behind a tanker for inflight refuelling .....
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I think you need to stay away from the class "A"
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Brad
Joined: 11 Aug 2010 Posts: 46
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Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 1:39 pm Post subject: mapping |
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Oh dear nothing a power commander can't sort ot then?Normally overlly rich maps are there to soften the feel of the bike. |
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SB8R Tuner
Joined: 29 Nov 2010 Posts: 83
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Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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For all you power commander lovers out there, what is so great about them? They are nothing but a fooling device. They take four cycles to do their job. Therefore, the fuel that they apply to the motor is not what the motor calls for at that moment. Can a Power Commander compensate for the cold start enrichment and warm-up? NO. Can it correct the air temp and air pressure offset corection factors? NO. Can it change the injector phase? Never. Power Commanders are for people who are happy with the status quo. Not perfectionists like myself or the people who can really appreciate bikes like the SB8R. As far as I know, I am the only person who has taken the time and effort to make this bike a complete joy to ride. After spending countless hours understanding the 50 plus maps and parameters you can adjust in the ECU I have gotten my bike to be a complete joy to ride and own, unlike before. |
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Brad
Joined: 11 Aug 2010 Posts: 46
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Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:09 pm Post subject: mapping |
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Easy Tiger,I guess you don't like Power Commanders?
Either way they do a reasonable job for the average Joe.Surely the other parameters can't be that far out?
The Power Commander 3 onwards modify the signal,reduces or increases it, the Power Commander 2 was a fooling device that changed the sensor signals in and out.This was spectacularly slow to respond,as the main fuel map was done on the Atmospheric Air Pressure sensor.
Access to the actual ECU is highly desirable but I can't understand why the ECU is that bad in the first place.Most Jap bikes are vitually spot on and just need a relatively small nudge in the right direction.
I quite fancied one of those SB8R's they sound like bit of a dog now. |
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GeeKay
Joined: 29 May 2009 Posts: 1767 Location: West Yorkshire
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Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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appreciate what you are saying, but it comes too late for me. When I was searching for an answer to the SB8's fuelling woes, the only lead I could unearth was this
http://www.factorypro.com/Prod_Pages/prodbim_SB8r.html
so I mailed them to ask if they could program my ecu. They could, but (obviously) only if they had it attached to the bike. They are in the USA, my bike is in the UK. It was pure chance (an ebay auction for an SB8R) that I came across Chris Gunster - the rest has already been posted on here. Whether the PCIII delivers as good a response as your re-programming of the original ECU does matters not to me - after fitting and mapping the PCIII the bike is a joy to ride and convinced me that it is now a keeper that I can use and enjoy.
This is in no way intended to be demeaning of your efforts to successfully re-programme the Magneti-Marelli unit - I applaud your skill and endeavour. |
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SB8R Tuner
Joined: 29 Nov 2010 Posts: 83
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Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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Grrrrrrrrr!!!
I have nothing against the Power Commanders. I have a tuning company and use them quite often. Just one question. How does the Power Commander know how long the injector pluse is untill it has already happened? It doesn't. It has to wait for the entire pluse to happen then makes its increase or decrease to that pluse width. By the time it makes that calculation the motor has already passed the point you want the injector to fire, that is why it is always one step behind. The reason the ECU is so badly tuned is because Bimota had their hands full with the V-Due project and didn't have the time to tune it themselves. That's where Microtec came in. The first tune for the bike was crap and the second one was a little better but not by much. Now look at the TL1000 factory ECU. It has over 20 maps for fuel and 20+ maps for ignition curves. It uses alpha N and speed density tunning for the fuel and spark along with a host of other maps for cold start, air pressure, air temp, etc... That is why I have spent so much time and effort into tuning the bike to what it should be. A work of art that is as much fun to ride as to look at!! |
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Pompey
Joined: 31 Jul 2008 Posts: 2311 Location: Marlborough
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Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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I vote for Geekay as the next prime minister or at least foreign minister ! diplomacy is not dead after all ... _________________ Pomps
Bimota's Db2, Db5 ,Ducati's 851' 92, 888' 93, Honda blade' 93, Triumph speed triple' 07, kawasaki zxr 750 k1 |
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Evilchicken0
Joined: 12 May 2010 Posts: 2996 Location: London
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Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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Nothing like a Bimota to bring out the OCD's is there.
You own a tuning company .... which is nice for you. Most Bimota owners don't though, and faced with a choice of poor runing standard or good running power comanderred bike most go for the latter. That's not to say yours isn't better it's just that most people don't have that choice.
Don't say anthing about the new version of PCs .... they can map each cylinder _________________ Don't read everything you believe |
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SB8R Tuner
Joined: 29 Nov 2010 Posts: 83
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Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 1:08 am Post subject: |
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GeeKay
I am in no way taking your comments in any type of demeaning manner.
I am glad you have gotten your bike running like you want it and am enjoying it as much as I do mine! As far as being able to reprogram the ECU off the bike I can do that. Ofcourse the way it would be programed would depend what all you have done to it.
Evilchicken0
Yes, it is nice for me, but how many people you know would pay for someone else to spend a ton of hours working on the factory ECU to tune
it correctly? Now that I have gotten my bike bike right it does not take as much effort to tune a second one. That is why haveing a really good base map helps to speed things up. As far as being able to tune each cylinder, the factory ECU can do that also. It is called rear cylinder offset map and I can adjust the spark curve the same way.
The main reason I started this thread is to inform SB8R owners that there is an option for them to have their ECU tuned correctly and the bike is no way a lost cause. |
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zombie
Joined: 10 Feb 2009 Posts: 272 Location: UK
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Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 1:22 am Post subject: |
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I would agree that a PC is much better than nothing.
But the PC seems to steal its power through the injectors/TPS which is not that reasurring for a marelli ecu (PC only connects to negative and the positive voltage is drawn through the injectors/TPS). The other thing to mention is that surely the injector bias should change depending on temperature. PC does not intake temperature so surely only works best at dyno-setup temperature which is probably hot coolant/warm air.
If its the same as the SB8RS, I can't really agree that the SB8R map is all that bad though as I really like the rush the SB8RS provides me and its plenty fast maybe faster (albeit less civilised but who needs that on a sports bike) compared to the K and my other bike Tornado LE .
Surely the instrumentation air temp/air pressure/water temp would surely give a very precise setup??
All the best
Zombie |
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