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New Member YB6IE

 
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arnie2



Joined: 02 Sep 2019
Posts: 3
Location: Gorae Victoria Australia

PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:47 pm    Post subject: New Member YB6IE Reply with quote

Hi. I'm new to the forum and forums in general but have always been interested in Bimotas. I was the sole bidder on the 1988 YB6IE at Centrepoint Motorcycles in Brisbane. I understand it was one of a handful built by Bimota for their Japanese importer Carrozzeria. I was wondering if the forum can provide more information about it particularly the fuel injection. I would also appreciate any information about owners and workshop manuals.
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shane 851



Joined: 28 Mar 2016
Posts: 17
Location: Sydney,Australia

PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congratulations i was watching that wondering if anyone was going to bid on that i think you might have got a bit of a bargain there as it looks in pretty good condition from the photos.i can't shed much light on how many they built with that colour scheme but it was only a handful something like 4 i think.Can't recall who it was but i am sure there is one in melbourne somewhere.I think he is on this forum too
As for workshop manuals you will get a photocopy from Bimota clssic parts or come across one on ebay at some point
Shane
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Andrew034



Joined: 02 Apr 2017
Posts: 29
Location: Sydney

PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well done with the new bike.

The you can get a parts manual from the Classic Bimota site, however I have not seen a service manual for the Fuel Injection anywhere.

The fuel injected YB4, YB6 and YB8 models all appear to use the same basic parts which comprise a customized Webber Marelli P7 ECU that works with the Yamaha engine. The engine is modified by placing a rotation sensor on a camshaft and a different TPS is used (so the typical 150mV setting from Ducati and Moto Guzzi doesn't apply).

In the case of my Furano, it has a EXUP, so the Yamaha ignition box operates both the EXUP and the ignition. Therefore the P7 is only delivering fuel to the engine. I have not looked at a YB4 or YB6 so I don't know how they are set up.

The positive side of having the P7 only operate the fueling, is the TPS setting becomes less critical and it really is a means of adjusting the mixture across the entire throttle range. A trip to a dyno could allow me to fine tune the fueling.

From memory, when I looked to adjust my TPS was set to about 550mV (I've written down the real value somewhere) and since the bike runs well I've left it there.

To get data from the ECU I made a "flashing light" fault tester which appears to work. However I still really want to set the TPS and so far despite my best efforts I have not been able to see outward communication from the ECU on an oscilloscope (so decoding a data stream has not yet happened).

If somebody has an ECU tool for a P7 or even better, technical data on the subject I would love to hear more.

In spite of the lack of specific information, the Fuel Injection System is very elementary and faults should be relatively easy to diagnose (unlike changing the sparkplugs). See how the bike runs when you receive it and then look to possible fault finding.

Andrew...
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Andrew034



Joined: 02 Apr 2017
Posts: 29
Location: Sydney

PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well done with the new bike.

The you can get a parts manual from the Classic Bimota site, however I have not seen a service manual for the Fuel Injection anywhere.

The fuel injected YB4, YB6 and YB8 models all appear to use the same basic parts which comprise a customized Webber Marelli P7 ECU that works with the Yamaha engine. The engine is modified by placing a rotation sensor on a camshaft and a different TPS is used (so the typical 150mV setting from Ducati and Moto Guzzi doesn't apply).

In the case of my Furano, it has a EXUP, so the Yamaha ignition box operates both the EXUP and the ignition. Therefore the P7 is only delivering fuel to the engine. I have not looked at a YB4 or YB6 so I don't know how they are set up.

The positive side of having the P7 only operate the fueling, is the TPS setting becomes less critical and it really is a means of adjusting the mixture across the entire throttle range. A trip to a dyno could allow me to fine tune the fueling.

From memory, when I looked to adjust my TPS was set to about 550mV (I've written down the real value somewhere) and since the bike runs well I've left it there.

To get data from the ECU I made a "flashing light" fault tester which appears to work. However I still really want to set the TPS and so far despite my best efforts I have not been able to see outward communication from the ECU on an oscilloscope (so decoding a data stream has not yet happened).

If somebody has an ECU tool for a P7 or even better, technical data on the subject I would love to hear more.

In spite of the lack of specific information, the Fuel Injection System is very elementary and faults should be relatively easy to diagnose (unlike changing the sparkplugs). See how the bike runs when you receive it and then look to possible fault finding.

Andrew...
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who



Joined: 10 Nov 2010
Posts: 376
Location: Melbourne Australia

PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have just purchased a very rare part of Bimota history.

Essentially it is a Tuatara (but better looking). And better speced (debatable but true).

Genesis (black) engine, as was the Tuatara, it's a 89 production date, even though the compliance plate is not stamped. No IE on the plate either.







Enjoy! I've also got most of the special on the stand also... Very Happy
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arnie2



Joined: 02 Sep 2019
Posts: 3
Location: Gorae Victoria Australia

PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the info people.
Will update when bike arrives which could be a couple of weeks before it is transported to Victoria.
Who: when you say
"I've also got most of the special on the stand also"
Does that mean this bike was also on the Tokyo show stand or that you own the special on the stand as Shane 851 indicated?
Is your bike the one in the middle photo?
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who



Joined: 10 Nov 2010
Posts: 376
Location: Melbourne Australia

PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The (YB6 EI) on the stand has ohlins front and rear marchesini's
6 pot calipers. Someone got creative over in Japan and murdered it!

It was wrecked and sold at auction in pieces, a lot of it came my way eventually. I still need some parts to complete it.



As the sales brochure indicates they were 3,390,000 Yen back in 1989, that's $45392.10 au today. That sort of money back then would have bought you a modest house Shocked
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Anders



Joined: 05 May 2009
Posts: 64
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

who wrote:
The (YB6 EI) on the stand has ohlins front and rear marchesini's
6 pot calipers. Someone got creative over in Japan and murdered it!

It was wrecked and sold at auction in pieces, a lot of it came my way eventually. I still need some parts to complete it.
...


That's a nice one!
I see you have the ISR 6-pot calipers on it now (on the orange bike). I use the same caliper on my bb1, but only one caliper and disk. The disks seem to be the cast iron Brembos?
I've been studying the "original" japanese image you posted, it seems like it had the 4-pot ISR calipers back then?
_________________
Anders
bb1, Mille S2, Guzzi / Watsonian, Morini Corsaro 125, EC200 etc
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who



Joined: 10 Nov 2010
Posts: 376
Location: Melbourne Australia

PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Anders, the orange bike is the one that was on the stand.

Just uglier these days!

That's the only one with the IRS calipers, and the ohlins forks-rear shock and marchesini's.

The calipers didn't come with it, and to tell you the truth I'm not a huge fan of the IRS six pots. The orange bike is being made into a tuatara race bike, front is now upside down Mazzocchi as on the tuatara, and will run brembo goldlines which I prefer.

Have fun!
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arnie2



Joined: 02 Sep 2019
Posts: 3
Location: Gorae Victoria Australia

PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Who. Can you tell me about the middle photo you posted. It seems to be similar to the one I bought. Even seems to have the similar damage to the letter F in folgore. Steven Spurrier sent me a photo on Facebook of a blue white & silver YB6EI he attempted to bid on in Japan that had a 6 pot caliper hanging from its brake line. Sorry but I don't seem to be able to paste it here. I see you're in Melbourne. Gorae is near Portland in Victoria. Get to Melbourne to see kids pretty often so wouldn't mind catching up with you at some stage. Should also be marshalling at the GP all going well.
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Andrew034



Joined: 02 Apr 2017
Posts: 29
Location: Sydney

PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

who wrote:
The orange bike is being made into a tuatara race bike, front is now upside down Mazzocchi as on the tuatara, and will run brembo goldlines which I prefer.

At the risk of hijacking the thread, I'll be interested in your exploits, recently I took my Furano to Eastern Creek here in Sydney.

Generally the motor ran exceptionally, the EXUP endows the motor with a nice a broad power spread and it still makes competitive power at the top end.

However the old bugbear of Fuel Injection from this era was apparent on a couple of corners (especially on the last 2 corners before the main straight are taken in a single sweep as a double apex). That is minor changes in the throttle position results in abrupt changes in the engine output which can unsettle the bike somewhat when leaned over.

This is largely a limitation of the P7 ECU which limits the throttle response curve to 16 theoretical throttle positions (it is really 14 as one position is zero and another is full power). Fortunately if you can burn EPROMS you can choose where in the throttle curve the transition points are located.

However, as per my previous posts I have as yet not been able to crack this ECU.

Keep us posted on your developments it sounds interesting and there are a couple of YB6 and YB8 racers out there still.

Andrew...
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who



Joined: 10 Nov 2010
Posts: 376
Location: Melbourne Australia

PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Arnie, yes the middle photo is of my other YB6ei.

It's the same bike as the one you purchased from centerpoint. The same bike as in the sales brochure which is the first photo, so they are sisters, or brothers, or the same, depending on how you look at things.

The sales brochure, and the Tokyo stand photo came to me from the guy in Japan who was selling the orange YB6ei that is in one of my photos.

It gets complicated doesn't it!

Andrew, just splice in a motec M48 or the like!

I would imagine if you are mucking around with TPS settings, that that is also going to effect the exup as well? Double trouble, the tuatara fueling was reported as pretty awesome in the day.

The weber throttle bodies are only 38mm, but the good news is that you can bore them (because they are choked) without having to worry about messing with the butterflies. I think 39.5mm is achievable.

I would set TPS to standard, and balance the TB, and see how it behaves then. Cheers.
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Andrew034



Joined: 02 Apr 2017
Posts: 29
Location: Sydney

PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

who wrote:
YB6ei that is in one of my photos.

It gets complicated doesn't it!

Andrew, just splice in a motec M48 or the like!

I would imagine if you are mucking around with TPS settings, that that is also going to effect the exup as well? Double trouble, the tuatara fueling was reported as pretty awesome in the day.

The weber throttle bodies are only 38mm, but the good news is that you can bore them (because they are choked) without having to worry about messing with the butterflies. I think 39.5mm is achievable.

I would set TPS to standard, and balance the TB, and see how it behaves then. Cheers.

A YB6ei with an EXUP is a real hybrid, it'll be fascinating to see what arrives.

There must be more differences with the Furano and the earlier versions than I thought:

I measured my throttlebodies as 46mm when I had then off a couple of years ago (and I note the part number is different to the YB4ei), so if you want bigger throttlebodies they exist.

While the P7 ECU design was generic and used in many applications (both car and motorcycle), it not able to be programmed to operate an EXUP. Therefore the Furano retains the Yamaha Ignition and EXUP controller. The Yamaha box operates the EXUP independently of the Fuel injection and each system has no knowledge or connection to the other.

While I haven't actually tested this, I'm pretty sure the Yamaha box also operates the ignition on the Furano (this means TPS setting becomes less critical).

As you say I should baseline the TPS. This was my goal when I originally removed and cleaned the throttlebodies, but the problem is I have no idea what the base line is!!!! So after a couple of crude experiments I returned the TPS to the setting it had when I received the bike.

Both the Ducati and Moto Guzzi installations of this ECU use the same Webber Marelli TPS and the baseline is 150mV with the Throttlebody fully closed. The Bimota YB4 and YB8 both use the same Colvern TPS and this has a different baseline setting.

For street use the fueling on the Furano is excellent and I have no complaints (and since this is a street ride I don't plan to alter the system with a Motec or similar). But at the track where you're pushing things harder the weaknesses begin to show up (so I'll stick one of my other bikes in the future).

Andrew...
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